U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-12-2008, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,427 posts, read 30,025,512 times
Reputation: 9661

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored2Day View Post
I was married to a carpenter for 12 years. I actually built decks with him in the summer time to help out. We lived in South Carolina. It was hot-hard work - I'd love to complain about that for a while, but I did look good with my tan and great work out every day. My father was a mechanic. They both actually made pretty good money but did work very hard. I love them both and got to hear them complain how hard they work every night. They just never were confronted like teachers and put in a position to have to defend themselves so others would not hear them whine. YOU back us up against a wall and then complain when we defend ourselves.

I love and respect men who work hard every day. I wouldn't insult your work.
Good answer. My respect level for you just went up 10 notches. I...maybe we, just dont understand what you mean being confronted and having to defend yourselves. I guess that is for another thread though. So we shall leave it at that. Good day to you !!!

Carry on................................
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-28-2008, 06:46 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
4 posts, read 8,951 times
Reputation: 11
Default Somethings don't equate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
It is said that we have 3 political parties. The Democrats, the Republicans and the Teachers Union. The Teachers Union it is said is the most powerful. They have brainwashed the gullible among us into thinking how underpaid Teachers are among other things.

So like many NJ bureaucratic disasters, yes NJ has far too many school districts. Why not condense/combine and save money? Nawwww cant do that. Then they might have to lower the property taxes.


Please try to separate the concepts of 1) teachers being paid [well in hopes that our society will have enough educated people to carry us through another generation] and 2) NJ having too many school districts. They have nothing to do with each other. Property taxes in NJ cannot be laid at the feet of educators. Sure, cutting teacher pay by 20% or 30% would lower property taxes, but so would consolidating smaller school districts. Only one, however, would leave ANY teachers in the NJ class rooms AND leave any hope of a productive NJ citizenry in 20 years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,550 posts, read 6,748,816 times
Reputation: 2054
Quote:
Originally Posted by emanon View Post
You never paid for medical benifets so welcome to the real world. I was self employed before I retired and for 20 years I paid about $1,500 a month for medical ins. with no dental. After the kids left home I got a break and paid $1,000 a month. Now the I am on SS I get a great deal and only pay about $500. a month. You people who get cheap medical benifets don't know how much they are really worth.I also did not get a pension from some company only the IRA that I contributed to 100%. Nobody kicked in for my retirement and I am a little tired of having to be taxed to pay for public employee benifits and retirement funds.

Yes teachers do deserve to be payed well but not for lifetime at my expense.

E


Absolutely. Frankly I'm completely sick of this "we're underpaid" argument. I mean it's not like teachers went into the profession thinking they were going to be making 150K a year. If I chose to spend my days working at a Burger King, should I therefore complain that I'm not making enough money because hey...I'm helping feed people (two can play the semantics game).

Summers off, federal holidays off, regular PTO, snow days, all in a chosen profession... underpaid? Please.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2008, 08:12 PM
 
Location: NJ
11,698 posts, read 21,515,552 times
Reputation: 4487
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH1970 View Post
Absolutely. Frankly I'm completely sick of this "we're underpaid" argument. I mean it's not like teachers went into the profession thinking they were going to be making 150K a year. If I chose to spend my days working at a Burger King, should I therefore complain that I'm not making enough money because hey...I'm helping feed people (two can play the semantics game).

Summers off, federal holidays off, regular PTO, snow days, all in a chosen profession... underpaid? Please.....

kinda like people complaining about paying for medical bennies because of THEIR chosen profession, eh?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2008, 08:20 PM
 
Location: High Bridge
2,738 posts, read 6,443,664 times
Reputation: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
kinda like people complaining about paying for medical bennies because of THEIR chosen profession, eh?
As someone in a (somewhat unchosen, it was rather random how I ended up doing what I do) chosen profession who doesn't have to pay for medical, dental, vision, etc...

I don't have a problem with teachers having medical benefits paid for. I do take issue with pensions (not just teachers btw), I take issue with the degree of benefits, and I DEFINITELY take issue with the tenure.

All I want is for teaching to be equitable to the modern workforce - similar paygrade (you suck? you're cheap labor, or fired), similar benefits, similar retirement plans (partial contributions based on employee contributions). Simple. If you're not a good teacher, you get canned. If you're an adequate teacher, your pay stagnates. If you're a great teacher, you continue to get good raises. Whats wrong with that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2008, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,550 posts, read 6,748,816 times
Reputation: 2054
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
kinda like people complaining about paying for medical bennies because of THEIR chosen profession, eh?

It's what they chose as their profession. Should I take a job as a record store clerk and then complain that I'm underpaid? Should I take a job part time at a grocery store and then complain that I may never get benefits? Or the jobs of bankers (notoriously low paying to begin with), should they complain as well?

Nobody's trying to diminish the importance of teachers. But at some point this argument of being underpaid because of their importance becomes silly. I could twist around the job of a fast food clerk and say they're important because "I'm helping feed people". Or someone who works at Abercrombie and Fitch and say, "I'm helping put clothes on people's backs".

One site had the average NJ teacher's salary is 56,682. A couple had it at a little over 53,000. For ten months worth of work, federal days, week long holidays, other random holidays, PTO and snow days? This is being underpaid??

Here's a scenario: if it came to a vote that we can give teachers what they feel they deserve yet it has to come at the expense of raising your property taxes, how many would actually wind up checking that box? Sure, some would, but I'm betting in actuality it would be a shockingly small amount.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2008, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,550 posts, read 6,748,816 times
Reputation: 2054
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuCullin View Post
As someone in a (somewhat unchosen, it was rather random how I ended up doing what I do) chosen profession who doesn't have to pay for medical, dental, vision, etc...

I don't have a problem with teachers having medical benefits paid for. I do take issue with pensions (not just teachers btw), I take issue with the degree of benefits, and I DEFINITELY take issue with the tenure.

All I want is for teaching to be equitable to the modern workforce - similar paygrade (you suck? you're cheap labor, or fired), similar benefits, similar retirement plans (partial contributions based on employee contributions). Simple. If you're not a good teacher, you get canned. If you're an adequate teacher, your pay stagnates. If you're a great teacher, you continue to get good raises. Whats wrong with that?

You do realize that a logical post like this will probably land you in Randi Weingarten's hit list.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-29-2008, 06:12 AM
 
Location: NJ
11,698 posts, read 21,515,552 times
Reputation: 4487
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH1970 View Post
It's what they chose as their profession. Should I take a job as a record store clerk and then complain that I'm underpaid? Should I take a job part time at a grocery store and then complain that I may never get benefits? Or the jobs of bankers (notoriously low paying to begin with), should they complain as well?

Nobody's trying to diminish the importance of teachers. But at some point this argument of being underpaid because of their importance becomes silly. I could twist around the job of a fast food clerk and say they're important because "I'm helping feed people". Or someone who works at Abercrombie and Fitch and say, "I'm helping put clothes on people's backs".

One site had the average NJ teacher's salary is 56,682. A couple had it at a little over 53,000. For ten months worth of work, federal days, week long holidays, other random holidays, PTO and snow days? This is being underpaid??

Here's a scenario: if it came to a vote that we can give teachers what they feel they deserve yet it has to come at the expense of raising your property taxes, how many would actually wind up checking that box? Sure, some would, but I'm betting in actuality it would be a shockingly small amount.
my point went right over your head. teachers can't complain about their pay (and really, do you know of any who does IRL? i don't), but everyone else who pays into their medical benefits CAN? they had the same choices as teachers. and for someone to complain (not you) about teachers while they collect SS on yours and my back (as we'll probably never see SS) is just ironically delicious.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-29-2008, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Martinsville, NJ
604 posts, read 1,993,766 times
Reputation: 242
My son is an administrator/PR guy for one of the largest health car systems in NJ with totally free medical insurance. My daughter inlaw is a school teacher in one of Somerset counties larger school districts with totally free medical insurance.
Anybody care to guess which is the better medical insurance provider?
Both my son and daughter inlaw are on the free ride provided by the school system.

So now that I am retired I am still paying for my kids health insurance.

And don't tell me about chosen profession, when I tell you it's $100 per hour to fix your mistakes around your house nobody is feeling sorry for me and telling me I have chosen the wrong profession.

I suggest we give all the school teachers a $10,000 a year raise and let them pay their own insurance and retirement benifets.

E
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-29-2008, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,550 posts, read 6,748,816 times
Reputation: 2054
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
my point went right over your head. teachers can't complain about their pay (and really, do you know of any who does IRL? i don't), but everyone else who pays into their medical benefits CAN? they had the same choices as teachers. and for someone to complain (not you) about teachers while they collect SS on yours and my back (as we'll probably never see SS) is just ironically delicious.

No, I understand that and I thought it was more of a dig on CuCullin more than anything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:36 AM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top