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Old 08-27-2019, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
11,983 posts, read 10,580,758 times
Reputation: 8366

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
Again, these infants did not choose to be brought to the US. A student chooses to cheat on an exam or lie on an application. Different stories.
Huh? Didn’t we just have a big televised scandle involving this? The parents paid off college admissions councilors to cheat their way in. The kids were punished by being kicked out and/or having their acceptance rescinded. The kids didn’t choose to pay people off. We are punishing the children for the parent’s crime. Maybe some of them would have made it in anyway, without the payoff. Some of those schools weren’t even that competitive.
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:07 PM
 
Location: NJ
24,876 posts, read 30,993,270 times
Reputation: 16857
some of you may be aware that i am a libertarian/anarchist. i believe that one guy who grows maters, i think its retriever, assumed that all libertarians are racist and evil. i kind of resent that depiction. anyway, yes we oppose government funding public assistance programs, taxation and many other things in that area. however, it pretty much never comes up in any of our discussions (except generally referring to taxation is theft and supporting the ending of the government) because our government is spending insane amounts of money on things that are pure evil and that is where we focus our anger. am i supposed to cry about government wasting $3.8 million when the US government spends $1 trillion a year on the military which mass murders innocent people? is it supposed to upset me that people got an education on my dime while the US government intentionally exacerbated a civil war in syria which has killed over 500,000 people?

i dont even support the existence of nations so it doesnt really matter to me if i paid for a "mexican" or an "american" to go to school but some people seem to think that the piece of dirt you live on makes your life more valuable than someone elses.

so i guess if the government is going to steal my money via taxation then id rather it go to education than murder. even though i oppose it; i just find it hard to get worked up over it.
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
11,983 posts, read 10,580,758 times
Reputation: 8366
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
some of you may be aware that i am a libertarian/anarchist. i believe that one guy who grows maters, i think its retriever, assumed that all libertarians are racist and evil. i kind of resent that depiction. anyway, yes we oppose government funding public assistance programs, taxation and many other things in that area. however, it pretty much never comes up in any of our discussions (except generally referring to taxation is theft and supporting the ending of the government) because our government is spending insane amounts of money on things that are pure evil and that is where we focus our anger. am i supposed to cry about government wasting $3.8 million when the US government spends $1 trillion a year on the military which mass murders innocent people? is it supposed to upset me that people got an education on my dime while the US government intentionally exacerbated a civil war in syria which has killed over 500,000 people?

i dont even support the existence of nations so it doesnt really matter to me if i paid for a "mexican" or an "american" to go to school but some people seem to think that the piece of dirt you live on makes your life more valuable than someone elses.

so i guess if the government is going to steal my money via taxation then id rather it go to education than murder. even though i oppose it; i just find it hard to get worked up over it.
So if someone stole your wife’s wedding ring, how worked up you get about it would depend on what the thief was using it for?
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:33 PM
 
Location: NJ
24,876 posts, read 30,993,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
So if someone stole your wife’s wedding ring, how worked up you get about it would depend on what the thief was using it for?
i wouldnt get worked up, id just contact my homeowners company and see if im covered (i dont really get worked up over things). but i understand the question. the response would be different because the entity doing the stealing is different and there are different understandings regarding this version of theft. at least that is generally accepted as illegal; taxation is something that isnt accepted as illegal and i have no recourse or expectation of it stopping. so i have little choice but to accept it happening. then i move to the next step which is caring about where it goes. with the "thief" its already generally accepted as illegal so i dont have to resign myself to let it happen or consider that "at least its not used for evil" like i do with government.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:44 PM
 
22,700 posts, read 17,533,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
A girl in my daughter’s 5th grade class had to move to Paris because of her dad’s job. I think she will be fine. Kids learn languages quickly when they are submerged in it.

Hey, and what about all those kids who these “refugees” (wink wink) are bringing over here. They have gone through school in another country. Many of them don't speak English. The humanitarian thing to do, would be to send them back to their natural habitat. After all, it would be cruel to subject them to a new country and new language after growing up somewhere else. Right?
Those families are coming to stay alive. Their countries have been taken over by drug cartels, for whom WE are by far their biggest market and the customers who enable them to keep growing. Without our unrelenting quest for more drugs the cartels would be a shell of what they are today. I would be in favor of doing something to help these countries get back on their feet, but of course we do the opposite which has made the problems there exponentially worse and increased the number of refugees trying to escape.

My grandparents were allowed to escape violence in Russia, thank God. Not gonna be the one to slam the door.

Regardless it’s a very different situation than the dreamers. These kids are already productive and contributing members of society as evidenced by hard work to get the grades required for this college aid, and I don’t understand what negative there is in having them be even better educated and productive. I don’t understand why people would be against a pathway to citizenship for these kids who have established lives here and had no choice in any of it. To me it just seems like aimless vindictiveness.

Last edited by ocnjgirl; 08-27-2019 at 04:54 PM..
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Old 08-27-2019, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
11,983 posts, read 10,580,758 times
Reputation: 8366
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
i wouldnt get worked up, id just contact my homeowners company and see if im covered (i dont really get worked up over things). but i understand the question. the response would be different because the entity doing the stealing is different and there are different understandings regarding this version of theft. at least that is generally accepted as illegal; taxation is something that isnt accepted as illegal and i have no recourse or expectation of it stopping. so i have little choice but to accept it happening. then i move to the next step which is caring about where it goes. with the "thief" its already generally accepted as illegal so i dont have to resign myself to let it happen or consider that "at least its not used for evil" like i do with government.
A their could use the money to buy a gun and kill people, or commit more robberies, so it can be used for evil, just the way the government does.

But you do realize that you cant say that tax is theft (and mean it) if you distinguish between legal theft and illegal theft. I mean, theft is theft, right? Either way, you are paying under threat of force. I’m not sure many strict libertarian/anarchist would agree with you that there is a difference.
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Old 08-27-2019, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
11,983 posts, read 10,580,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Those families are coming to stay alive. Their countries have been taken over by drug cartels, for whom WE are by far their biggest market and the customers who enable them to keep growing. Without our unrelenting quest for more drugs the cartels would be a shell of what they are today. I would be in favor of doing something to help these countries get back on their feet, but of course we do the opposite which has made the problems there exponentially worse and increased the number of refugees trying to escape.

My grandparents were allowed to escape violence in Russia, thank God. Not gonna be the one to slam the door.

Regardless it’s a very different situation than the dreamers. These kids are already productive and contributing members of society as evidenced by hard work to get the grades required for this college aid, and I don’t understand what negative there is in having them be even better educated and productive. I don’t understand why people would be against a pathway to citizenship for these kids who have established lives here and had no choice in any of it. To me it just seems like aimless vindictiveness.
It is neither “aimless” or “vindictive”. It provides incentive to come here. Everything we have done to normalize illegal aliens in recent decades, has incentivized more of them to come.

Being an illegal alien in most countries is a miserable experience. That seems to work well, because most countries dont have the illegal alien problem that we have here. It used to be a miserable experience for them here too. They didn’t start coming in huge numbers until we started making life livable for them here. We are basically inviting them to break our laws, and that needs to be reversed. What is the point of having a country if every poor person in the world can come here and use up all of our social services?
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Old 08-27-2019, 07:27 PM
 
22,700 posts, read 17,533,735 times
Reputation: 42020
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
It is neither “aimless” or “vindictive”. It provides incentive to come here. Everything we have done to normalize illegal aliens in recent decades, has incentivized more of them to come.

Being an illegal alien in most countries is a miserable experience. That seems to work well, because most countries dont have the illegal alien problem that we have here. It used to be a miserable experience for them here too. They didn’t start coming in huge numbers until we started making life livable for them here. We are basically inviting them to break our laws, and that needs to be reversed. What is the point of having a country if every poor person in the world can come here and use up all of our social services?
What we are doing now is increasing the numbers coming. Illegal immigration was at historic lows 3 years ago. And again these kids had no choice and I’m not on board with sending them to a country they don’t even know. Don’t you realize by educating these kids we are preventing them from ever needing social services?
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Old 08-27-2019, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Union City, NJ
1,599 posts, read 1,000,868 times
Reputation: 2214
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
What we are doing now is increasing the numbers coming. Illegal immigration was at historic lows 3 years ago. And again these kids had no choice and I’m not on board with sending them to a country they don’t even know. Don’t you realize by educating these kids we are preventing them from ever needing social services?
Good luck convincing white America that the browning of the nation is a good thing.
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Old 08-27-2019, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
11,983 posts, read 10,580,758 times
Reputation: 8366
Quote:
Originally Posted by HudsonCoNJ View Post
Good luck convincing white America that the browning of the nation is a good thing.
Why would the color matter at all? That is neither good, nor bad. People are people.

If you said, “Good luck convincing rich people from first world countries, that bringing in loads of poor people from the third world countries is a good thing.” I would agree with you. You can’t convince us, that is, unless you are one of the people that profits from them. We have already seen the effects over the last few decades.
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