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Old 08-21-2019, 07:10 PM
 
Location: NYC
13,786 posts, read 9,287,919 times
Reputation: 15246

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
These are the Dreamers and other kids who have already been here. To qualify they need to have graduated from a NJ high school, and attain a certain GPA. They’ve been living here, they’ve been working hard, I’d rather see them educated and contributing then on public assistance.
Gotta thank the democrats for not negociating on a real immigration reform package. You see Obama had the same problem as Trump. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid refused to create an immigration package for Obama while they had majority in all 3 branches. They got lazy and complacent. They believe they just need to pass one thing per session and get the Obamacare passed and wait another year to get a super majority in the senate. Everything backfired on them. They lost the house and later the senate. Obama had no choice but to create DACA with executive order.

Trump is facing similar situation, he wants a real immigration bill for immigrants and in exchange funding for the wall but the Democrats refused to deal and Mconnell doesn't give a damn about dreamers.

That's the real face of the Democrats, they don't care about dreamers they just want Trump to be the fall guy.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:27 PM
 
2,133 posts, read 4,062,221 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Most illegals I know rather stay illegal. Cash jobs like construction pays better than some office jobs and six figure salary
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Yes I do, I hired many to work on my home remodeling and they do better than many of us.
You hired many illegals to work for you? Why do you hate Americans? You could have been paying Americans a 6 figure salary to work on your home. You should be deported to wherever it is you came from. If you can't bother to hire American workers, you obviously DGAF about this country.

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Old 08-21-2019, 07:40 PM
 
22,700 posts, read 17,533,735 times
Reputation: 42020
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Gotta thank the democrats for not negociating on a real immigration reform package. You see Obama had the same problem as Trump. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid refused to create an immigration package for Obama while they had majority in all 3 branches. They got lazy and complacent. They believe they just need to pass one thing per session and get the Obamacare passed and wait another year to get a super majority in the senate. Everything backfired on them. They lost the house and later the senate. Obama had no choice but to create DACA with executive order.

Trump is facing similar situation, he wants a real immigration bill for immigrants and in exchange funding for the wall but the Democrats refused to deal and Mconnell doesn't give a damn about dreamers.

That's the real face of the Democrats, they don't care about dreamers they just want Trump to be the fall guy.
They had a deal, Trump walked away from it. Not that I’m a Democrat defender, there’s a lot of things I’m not happy with. But don’t forget Obama was the king of deportations and he did it without unneeded cruelty because he wasn’t trying to use it as a political tool. and illegal immigration was at historic lows. Maybe there are ways that work better than what we are doing now (which ironically has resulted in record highs of border crossings). Getting tough is not the answer to everything or even most things. We can have immigration laws and protected borders and we can do it without hatred or mean-spiritedness, just not with this admin cause he needs it to be dog and pony show to satisfy the only Americans he cares about, his ba

Last edited by ocnjgirl; 08-21-2019 at 07:51 PM..
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:42 PM
 
22,700 posts, read 17,533,735 times
Reputation: 42020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docendo discimus View Post
You hired many illegals to work for you? Why do you hate Americans? You could have been paying Americans a 6 figure salary to work on your home. You should be deported to wherever it is you came from. If you can't bother to hire American workers, you obviously DGAF about this country.
They helped build every Trump casino and he had them at his golf courses too.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:08 PM
 
1,168 posts, read 847,484 times
Reputation: 1189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
They helped build every Trump casino and he had them at his golf courses too.
Thats a lie. I do believe we should imprison employers who hire them.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:16 PM
 
22,700 posts, read 17,533,735 times
Reputation: 42020
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyHobkins View Post
Thats a lie. I do believe we should imprison employers who hire them.
It’s not a lie, sorry. I worked in AC, everyone down here knows he did. Just as he stiffed our local contractors by not paying them or offering them less than they agreed on. The only way he’s ever made money is by cheating the system and other people. And he still managed to lose money.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:15 AM
 
7,339 posts, read 14,390,647 times
Reputation: 5018
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyHobkins View Post
ABSOLUTELY NOT. You are taking away aid from AMERICAN CITIZENS paid for by AMERICAN CITIZENS, who's children deserve it. These people do not belong in this country and need/will be deported, also they do not belong on any welfare.
You guys are acting like these are people that just hopped the border yesterday and are going to college. These are DACA recipients/Dreamers who were dragged over here as child before they could even walk or make decisions on their own. These children are just as American at heart as any of us. They went to the same public schools, speak the same language, celebrate the same holidays, see the same movies, watch the same shows, listen to the same music, etc. The only difference is a happenstance that you were in the US on Day 1 and they were dragged here as infants.

These children were brought here by their parents. If you want to claim they are criminals, let's break it down. If a group of adults robs a bank, they're all liable. From the guy driving the getaway car to the one robbing the bank, and even the ones just along for the ride in the car who do not stop the crime in action. However, say the driver has an infant in the backseat. That infant is not going to be found guilty of robbery because it did not voluntarily choose to be part of the crime, nor did it have the capacity to remove itself from the criminal activity of its parent. In legalese, there was no mens rea to commit robbery.

In reference to children dragged into the US, if you want to label it a crime, did a 6 month old infant who couldn't walk or talk or have coherent thought processes actually choose to commit a crime? No. Therefore, you are treating an infant like a criminal based on involuntary actions it was forced to take by its parents. Every modern legal system I am aware of bans punishing the family/children of a criminal for the criminal acts of one individual. Only the individual may be punished for the crime. Nobody else may be unless they were an active participant or had the mental capacity to remove themselves from the crime, but chose not to.

Ultimately, I don't understand this extreme hatred you all have for children who were brought here illegally by their parents. They did not choose to live here. However, they have participated in our government and democracy in the same exact way that all your children did. What is the purpose of having such hatred for an entire group of people who didn't choose this for themselves? Why do none of you possess an ounce of empathy within your (possible nonexistent) souls?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
These are the Dreamers and other kids who have already been here. To qualify they need to have graduated from a NJ high school, and attain a certain GPA. They’ve been living here, they’ve been working hard, I’d rather see them educated and contributing then on public assistance.
Thank you ^
It's proven that higher education leads to higher incomes. Lower education results in lower incomes. If immigrants have higher incomes, they will be less reliant on social services which is the goal that conservatives seek. Here comes a government program investing in immigrants at a young age to guarantee they will not need lifelong assistance, and all I see is ire directed at them.

You guys gotta pick one. Do you want immigrants to be poor and uneducated and reliant on assistance? Then keep them away from earning an education and higher income and excluding them from all sectors of our economy. Do you want immigrants to be contributing members of our society? Then let them become educated and work their way up.

I know the rebuttal to that is "well just come over legally." But that misses the entire point that you're still punishing people who did not CHOOSE to cross the border and settle here as undocumented. By denying a Dreamer access to any assistance, you thereby place them in the same category as an adult who paid their money to cross the border on their own free will. At that point, we could agree to disagree on the level of assistance those adults who chose to be undocumented should receive. But I don't see how any human with an ounce of empathy could willingly deny a Dreamer/DACA recipient from being functioning member of society.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
12 posts, read 3,839 times
Reputation: 21
I completely agree with the above poster, if they are Dreamers that came here as infants, they are pretty much just as american as we are, they grew up here, went to public school here, America is all they know. Sending them back to a country they do not know that they left when they were infants, would be cruel and ridiculous.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:01 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
8,793 posts, read 12,744,262 times
Reputation: 8520
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
You guys are acting like these are people that just hopped the border yesterday and are going to college. These are DACA recipients/Dreamers who were dragged over here as child before they could even walk or make decisions on their own. These children are just as American at heart as any of us. They went to the same public schools, speak the same language, celebrate the same holidays, see the same movies, watch the same shows, listen to the same music, etc. The only difference is a happenstance that you were in the US on Day 1 and they were dragged here as infants.

These children were brought here by their parents. If you want to claim they are criminals, let's break it down. If a group of adults robs a bank, they're all liable. From the guy driving the getaway car to the one robbing the bank, and even the ones just along for the ride in the car who do not stop the crime in action. However, say the driver has an infant in the backseat. That infant is not going to be found guilty of robbery because it did not voluntarily choose to be part of the crime, nor did it have the capacity to remove itself from the criminal activity of its parent. In legalese, there was no mens rea to commit robbery.

In reference to children dragged into the US, if you want to label it a crime, did a 6 month old infant who couldn't walk or talk or have coherent thought processes actually choose to commit a crime? No. Therefore, you are treating an infant like a criminal based on involuntary actions it was forced to take by its parents. Every modern legal system I am aware of bans punishing the family/children of a criminal for the criminal acts of one individual. Only the individual may be punished for the crime. Nobody else may be unless they were an active participant or had the mental capacity to remove themselves from the crime, but chose not to.

Ultimately, I don't understand this extreme hatred you all have for children who were brought here illegally by their parents. They did not choose to live here. However, they have participated in our government and democracy in the same exact way that all your children did. What is the purpose of having such hatred for an entire group of people who didn't choose this for themselves? Why do none of you possess an ounce of empathy within your (possible nonexistent) souls?



Thank you ^
It's proven that higher education leads to higher incomes. Lower education results in lower incomes. If immigrants have higher incomes, they will be less reliant on social services which is the goal that conservatives seek. Here comes a government program investing in immigrants at a young age to guarantee they will not need lifelong assistance, and all I see is ire directed at them.

You guys gotta pick one. Do you want immigrants to be poor and uneducated and reliant on assistance? Then keep them away from earning an education and higher income and excluding them from all sectors of our economy. Do you want immigrants to be contributing members of our society? Then let them become educated and work their way up.

I know the rebuttal to that is "well just come over legally." But that misses the entire point that you're still punishing people who did not CHOOSE to cross the border and settle here as undocumented. By denying a Dreamer access to any assistance, you thereby place them in the same category as an adult who paid their money to cross the border on their own free will. At that point, we could agree to disagree on the level of assistance those adults who chose to be undocumented should receive. But I don't see how any human with an ounce of empathy could willingly deny a Dreamer/DACA recipient from being functioning member of society.
Sorry but two wrongs don't make a right.

Just because Obama gave them a nice label (Dreamers) they are still here illegally and American citizens should have the 1st opportunity to tax payers money.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:05 AM
 
7,339 posts, read 14,390,647 times
Reputation: 5018
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro69 View Post
Sorry but two wrongs don't make a right.

Just because Obama gave them a nice label (Dreamers) they are still here illegally and American citizens should have the 1st opportunity to tax payers money.
Then the only conclusion I can draw from this is that you lack the ability to feel empathy. You are still punishing someone for something they did not choose in life. You are still holding them back from being normal members of society.

And, guess what? Citizens do get financial aid. They already have access to it.

And, guess what else? The parents of Dreamers do pay taxes.
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