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Old 08-24-2019, 09:00 PM
 
21,996 posts, read 14,681,683 times
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Chances are the project is still dead in water long as DT is in office.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...-cost-65169724
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Union City, NJ
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Makes you wonder where that extra $1.5 billion in the original proposal was going...
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:42 PM
 
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Thing is they could shave many more billions off this tunnel by ditching prevailing wage and other pro union rules. But that isn't going to happen, so things essentially are what they are, meaning unless or until DT sees any political advantage nothing will happen until he's gone.

Even with democrats in control of WH and Congress funding gateway is going to be heavy lifting in Washington. Boston's Big Dig was the last really huge infrasturue project memory, and that hot mess has given things such a bad name no one in government wants to go near.

Sadly no one thought about all the consequences and reprecussions of killing off major private railroads. Amtrak has funds to keep it self running *and* maintenance along with upgrades. What is left of major railroads in this country are all freight and they want nothing to do with passenger service, including spending billions for tunnels they can never use. North River bed cannot support heavy freight train traffic, PRR tried and found this out first hand. Hence right up until Penn Central filed for bankruptcy barge/car floats were used to move freight from NJ to Manhattan or Brooklyn, just as had been done for decades prior.

All this being said the project sooner or later will need to be done, or NEC will just shut down. Federal government (sadly) is the only enity left standing that can fund the thing, so it's time face facts and get on with things.
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:14 AM
 
Location: New Jersey/Florida
5,475 posts, read 10,683,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HudsonCoNJ View Post
Makes you wonder where that extra $1.5 billion in the original proposal was going...
Exactly, waste, waste, waste
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Earth
4,833 posts, read 3,291,798 times
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build the tunnel!


MAGA!
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
11,984 posts, read 10,578,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
build the tunnel!


MAGA!
As long as you brought it up, a wall might actually be a better plan.
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
58,548 posts, read 56,454,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HudsonCoNJ View Post
Makes you wonder where that extra $1.5 billion in the original proposal was going...
Although I know you meant that as some sort of evidence of deviousness, I would ACTUALLY like to know what those changes to the design and construction were that lowered the estimate.

I've been to a couple of presentations on Gateway in the engineering industry, so I am genuinely curious as to what they may have come up with. It sounds as though a value engineering exercise was done. Perhaps I'll find out next month.
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:59 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
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^ That's bad that the only way to reduce cost is to value engineer (poorer design quality and strength) but still keep the waste from labor, unions and bureaucracy.

It should be the other way around. Trim the fat, not the muscle.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
58,548 posts, read 56,454,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
^ That's bad that the only way to reduce cost is to value engineer (poorer design quality and strength) but still keep the waste from labor, unions and bureaucracy.

It should be the other way around. Trim the fat, not the muscle.
I agree, but it doesn't necessarily mean what you want it to mean, though. From what I can gather from the presentations I've seen (and although I've spent my life in the engineering world, I'm not an engineer) one of the problems with the tunnel are the geotechnical issues. The material in the river bed and what's underneath it vary greatly, and tests borings aren't necessarily going to provide the full information as to what type of TBM (tunnel boring machine) will need to be built until they actually start boring. They may need more than one TBM, and these aren't something you pick up at Home Depot. They cost about a couple hundred million to build. Perhaps they've gathered enough information to make some solid decisions about how to proceed, and that accounts for some of the reduction in the estimate.

The river bed also varies greatly in depth from one side of the river to the other. I also found it interesting that the soil on top of the river bed is "weak" and is going to have to be mixed with ground concrete to strengthen it. I'd never heard of that before.

(You learn a lot of weird things hanging around engineers that the public never knows about because frankly, the public has no actual interest in the details of the construction and design of a project. It seems to be a lot more fun to complain without actually seeking any knowledge. One of my favorites is that when they were building the piers for the towers of the new Goethals, they built the caisson in the water and in order to safely remove the fish that were now trapped inside, a mild electric current was applied that would stun the fish but not kill them so that they rose to the surface, and then they were removed to another part of the Arthur Kill.)

Anyway, if you've gone onto the Gateway Development Corporation site, which I'm sure ALL of you commenting here have done because you want to be informed and stuff , you'll see that they have a portal for interested firms that have the requisite background in doing this type of work so that they can review the preliminary documents in advance of the RFI they will be issuing as part of the pre-procurement phase and bring their ideas to the table.

I am not sure if they will have a Project Labor Agreement in place for this project. New York City agencies are generally resistant to PLAs because of the union influence, but that would help.

And, unfortunately, for a project this size crossing so many agencies and with so many politicians sticking their hands in, bureaucracy is going to be a reality.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:57 AM
 
1,082 posts, read 3,269,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
build the tunnel!


MAGA!
Unfortunately, people who seriously use the slogan “MAGA” are not interested in fixing infrastructure, which ironically would be an actual step in making America great again...
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