This should be fun, lets compaire...what are your taxes? (Dover: new home, employment)

[MaverickDD]

Originally Posted by banger

To MaverickDD, HERE,HERE... You were just able to articulate how it is that New Jersey, can impose an exit tax, and still find thousands willing to pay it. What ever it cost to leave, is money well spent. Notice too how our kinder and gentler legislators in Trenton are driving business from this state, through taxes, fees, worker entitlements, regulations and such. Business have learned quite a while ago, that relief is simply on the other side of the Delaware river. Perfection no, but a good deal of relief none the less. Oh the humanity, it's like living in a slow motion disaster.

Thank you, Banger. I'd be happy to meet across the river sometime to toast that relief. A good time and place... hmmm... Musikfest in Bethlehem is less than 2 months away. Let's find ways to minimize NJ's "Exit Tax" as well as PA's "Entry Tax."

Regarding that "Entry Tax," if you're moving to Pennsylvania, be aware of this tax trap that many folk leaving New Jersey are getting burned by: Before moving and establishing residency in Pennsylvania, you MUST sell your New Jersey home. If you establish residency before you sell, PA will demand income tax from you on any gain you make upon the sale of your NJ residence. Yes, they will inquire into the specific date of residency and date of sale. Hence, save a bundle and sell before you move.

[Obrero]

Originally Posted by banger

To MaverickDD,

HERE,HERE...

You were just able to articulate how it is that New Jersey, can impose an exit tax, and still find thousands willing to pay it.
What ever it cost to leave, is money well spent.

Notice too how our kinder and gentler legislators in Trenton are driving business from this state, through taxes, fees, worker entitlements, regulations and such.

Business have learned quite a while ago, that relief is simply on the other side of the Delaware river. Perfection no, but a good deal of relief none the less.

Oh the humanity, it's like living in a slow motion disaster.

What exit tax? There is a realty transfer tax that everyone pays. Nothing specific if you are leaving NJ.

[Stone28]

Originally Posted by MaverickDD

Your point is well taken. I'll be the first to admit that tax rates on the wealthy in New Jersey are utterly ridiculous. (And it's not just the rates: Losses don't exist. Losses in one category may not be used to offset income in another. Itemized deductions -- what are they? Etc.)

Yet there are segments of New Jersey's wealthy that benefit greatly (though indirectly) from government entitlements. New Jersey has a sizable aristocratic class that enjoy power, prestige, preference, and position. Many in this class are the recipients of the exorbitant fees that New Jerseyans pay; fees for goods and services that would cost much less if the government wasn't subsidizing these charges for some people but not for others.

And what benefits might these be? Take rent subsidies as one example.

Most poor people don't pay much for rent. Section 8 pays it for them. The excessive rents paid by the government to house the poor lead to higher rents (driven by economic supply/demand) upon the unsubsidized middle class (another hidden tax). Who benefits? 1) The poor, and 2) rental property owners. The poor get their rent paid by the government, the wealthy get increased cash flows + asset values while the middle class pay for it.

More so, rental rates in poor neighborhoods are ridiculous! Think about it. Why would someone pay half-a-million dollars for a three family house in a neighborhood where kids go to schools surrounded by 12 foot fences topped with razor wire? Why are the rents higher there than in towns with blue-ribbon school districts? Because those who live there aren't paying for it and those who own there are assured of ever escalating income, (until the next "event of reckoning" occurs, but we'll save that for another post).

With the ludicrous taxes placed upon the well-to-do, why would they stay in NJ? Because many are at the end of the line as the indirect recipient of some entitlement benefits. That's the benefit that the well-off get for staying.

And I agree with you. If they're not somehow getting that benefit, there is no advantage for the wealthy to stay. In that case, they're nuts to stay too. And yes, many wealthy are leaving. But as long as we're both still here, well-to-do or middle class, if you're one of us nuts, I'll share acorns with you!

(PS: And the hardest hit are the true working poor. How the unsubsidized working poor ever come up with the money to pay rent in New Jersey is beyond me. My heart goes out to them -- and no, I'm not being facetious.)

(PPS: Many of New Jersey's well-off avoid some of our state's income tax by establishing residency in low or no-income-tax states via ownership of a second home. It's rather well known that thousands of New Jerseyans claim Florida residency by making their Florida home their "tax home" and their New Jersey home their "second home." That's a privilege unavailable to the middle class.)

Are you saying that all upper income people in NJ are recipients of entitlements? Such as rent subsidies?.... You can't be serious

Or some other indirect entitlement benifit? Please be a little more specific, thats a little vague.

And if they are not recieving these "benifits" as you call them "there nuts to stay"....So I guess its nuts to want to live in a place that offers the very best of the best...

[ultgar]

We recently purchased a home in a nice community in Mooresville NC....... Home built in 2006, .8 acres property, 3 1/2 baths and 4 bedrooms.... $4,100 annual property taxes.

Our home in Emerson NJ...Built in 1885, .8 acres property, 3 baths and 5 bedrooms.....$21,000 annual property taxes.

[kaday]

In 2003 we left NJ. Our modest 3 BR 2 1/2 bath home with a dilapidated garage on less than a tenth of an acre had property taxes of almost 13,000. Our 5BR 5 BA home in the Atlanta area has property taxes of $4800. But no sloppy joes around.

[wileynj]

Originally Posted by kaday

In 2003 we left NJ. Our modest 3 BR 2 1/2 bath home with a dilapidated garage on less than a tenth of an acre had property taxes of almost 13,000. Our 5BR 5 BA home in the Atlanta area has property taxes of $4800. But no sloppy joes around.

But what was your income in NJ vs. your income in GA? It's all relative...make more, spend more...make less spend less.

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by Alex07860

This kind of #'s is what pisses me off sometimes, how can we just be happy of paying such high property taxes? Why do we tolerate it?, enable it?, justify it? when some people as shanny stated earn LESS than that, how are we to look ourselves in the mirror and no go postal about it? I'm paying close to 11k as it is and w/ the new reassesment that was done if I take the same rate table I'll be paying close to 20k and I'm not very pleased, happy w/ this news. And then people wonder why NJ are fleeing, don't get me wrong I love Jersey as much as the next person, but is #'s like that and the rest of the politics as usual that discourage me.

Alex, when a reval is done the tax rate goes DOWN. You would not be paying $20K/yr. We haven't gotten our rate yet, but "rumor" has it it'll be about 1/2 of what it was pre-reval.

[kaday]

Originally Posted by wileynj

But what was your income in NJ vs. your income in GA? It's all relative...make more, spend more...make less spend less.

Our income is more in Georgia.

[cmsvmom]

Bergenfield. 3 br 1 bath cape, 50 x 100 lot, no garage. Under contract to sell in the 270s. Taxes 6990.

[Busch Boy]

I'm sure that the wealthy residents of NJ get just as a screwed (if not more) than everybody else. The only difference is that they can afford it!

I say there are only three things that should really hold a person down in New Jersey.
1) Family
2) Education (public schools are better here than in most states)
3) A really good irreplaceable job in the area

You can learn to live without everything else if you really take the time to adjust to your new setting of choice. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE New Jersey. But if the opportunity arises one day, I would definitely leave.