Mike Gravel for President 2008 (contractor, wages, cost)

[CuCullin]

Originally Posted by nicolem

Silliness? Securing our borders is silly? Well that is about the silliest thing I ever heard. Oh I am one of those people who want to secure our borders? OMG I am an extreme wacko

Its not feasible. Its been reviewed to death. There is too great a border, nowhere near enough troops, and far to expensive to get even close to practical. Suggesting we can do it at any time, is, in fact, quite silly.

Originally Posted by nicolem

Just what did I say about 9/11? You accuse me of abusing 9-11? How dare you! Where exactly did I do that? Where did I metion or reference 9-11- I think you are the one with the problem-I never once alluded to or mentioned 9-11!!. You have NO IDEA my connection to 9-11 and who I lost on that day so don't accuse me of something that I did not do!

You didn't; and I wasn't implying you were, sorry you misunderstood. EVERY time this discussion comes up, everyone in support of a border fence and other nonsense claims if we don't, we'll be killed by terrorists, and it'll be 9/11 all over again. I'm sick of that abuse of it, and I wanted to comment and head it off before anyone started it. I spent months doing something I wasn't exactly happy about doing, and I'm not about to support an idea that would allow it to happen again.

[nicolem]

Originally Posted by CuCullin

Its not feasible. Its been reviewed to death. There is too great a border, nowhere near enough troops, and far to expensive to get even close to practical. Suggesting we can do it at any time, is, in fact, quite silly.



You didn't; and I wasn't implying you were, sorry you misunderstood. EVERY time this discussion comes up, everyone in support of a border fence and other nonsense claims if we don't, we'll be killed by terrorists, and it'll be 9/11 all over again. I'm sick of that abuse of it, and I wanted to comment and head it off before anyone started it. I spent months doing something I wasn't exactly happy about doing, and I'm not about to support an idea that would allow it to happen again.

Well just for the record there are those of us "wackos" who have wanted the border secured and have cared about American sovereignty WAY before 9-11.

[CuCullin]

Originally Posted by nicolem

Well just for the record there are those of us "wackos" who have wanted the border secured and have cared about American sovereignty WAY before 9-11.

For the record, I didn't say wackos - you did.

Wanting to have a secure border, regardless of the date, is irrelevant. Its still not feasible to lock down the entire US border. Another option has to be chosen.

[njkate]

Originally Posted by CuCullin

I'm curious.... why?

You're never going to be able to stop illegal immigration, there is just way too much border to cover. This way, you create a worker program where they get taxed, without full services, and we reap the benefits as taxpayers because our costs are offset. There are jobs that many americans won't take; by the same token, if an immigrant will, and they will have to pay taxes, that means minimum wage requirements must be met. It means jobs that require more skill will require more pay, bolstering the working class's income, while at the same time creating a reduction in overall taxes (as well as removing some costs of border patrols, which we are ill-equipped to handle anyway). It creates a program by which immigrants can be easily monitored, because if they can get in to work, why would they purchase illegal documentation, or bribe INS employees to get in?

I think it would do a far better job of managing the immigration issue than to ignore the situation, and put on this proud face that we are "defending our borders from terrrrrrrism"

The border..lol..hahaha..3 problems solved
Dig a freakin moat
use the soil to shore op the levy's in New Orleans
Fill the moat with all those nasty gators from FL

I am TOTALLY against amnesty..it's just wrong..wrong for all the people who wait in line to come here legally!! Think about that the next time somebody tries to cut you off in line. I have no issue with legal immigrants, it's the illegals I have a problem with.

[wileynj]

Originally Posted by nicolem

Well just for the record there are those of us "wackos" who have wanted the border secured and have cared about American sovereignty WAY before 9-11.

well I have news for you...immigrants are still crossing the border. I came across one guy recently who just paid 2500 to get from Mexico into houston and then he walked from Houston to Dover, NJ without a dime! All so that he could make 100/day shovelling ****! How many American's would be willing to do this? What if Mexico had the jobs and America didn't? Gaining control over the situation and addressing "why" this is happening is a good plan! If it is no longer beneficial for illegals to come to this country to work, there will be no need for border control.

[nicolem]

Originally Posted by njkate

The border..lol..hahaha..3 problems solved
Dig a freakin moat
use the soil to shore op the levy's in New Orleans
Fill the moat with all those nasty gators from FL

I am TOTALLY against amnesty..it's just wrong..wrong for all the people who wait in line to come here legally!! Think about that the next time somebody tries to cut you off in line. I have no issue with legal immigrants, it's the illegals I have a problem with.

I couldn't agree more. I will repeat what I said earlier. We could have our border sealed in a matter of no time if the powers to be-politicians, big business and open border lobbyists really wanted to. It is not a matter of not being able to-it is a matter of not wanting to.

Nicolem

[nicolem]

Originally Posted by wileynj

well I have news for you...immigrants are still crossing the border. I came across one guy recently who just paid 2500 to get from Mexico into houston and then he walked from Houston to Dover, NJ without a dime! All so that he could make 100/day shovelling ****! How many American's would be willing to do this? What if Mexico had the jobs and America didn't? Gaining control over the situation and addressing "why" this is happening is a good plan! If it is no longer beneficial for illegals to come to this country to work, there will be no need for border control.

What about the fact that illegals supress American wages? Your posts seem to imply you are for the working man? Why not put Americans and those immigrants who came here legally first? It is not my problem Mexico doesn't have jobs. That is the government of Mexico's problem-who btw- is rich. They should care about their citizens instead of supplying them with maps on how to sneak over the border illegally. Everyone always cripes about high NJ taxes. What about all the welfare, hospital, esl classes etc that are provided to illegals.

The only thing we need to do to solve this problem is seal the border and enforce current immigration law.

[njkate]

Originally Posted by nicolem

What about the fact that illegals supress American wages? Your posts seem to imply you are for the working man? Why not put Americans and those immigrants who came here legally first? It is not my problem Mexico doesn't have jobs. That is the government of Mexico's problem-who btw- is rich. They should care about their citizens instead of supplying them with maps on how to sneak over the border illegally. Everyone always cripes about high NJ taxes. What about all the welfare, hospital, esl classes etc that are provided to illegals.

The only thing we need to do to solve this problem is seal the border and enforce current immigration law.

Mexico is one of the most racist countries out there..the ruling class is decended from wealthy European Spainairds, the illegal immigrant we see is decended from the indigenous people who are suppressed in Mexico

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by CuCullin

For the record, I didn't say wackos - you did.

Wanting to have a secure border, regardless of the date, is irrelevant. Its still not feasible to lock down the entire US border. Another option has to be chosen.

I seem to remember the Soviet Union did a very good job of it though, circa 1985. In fact, the Iron Curtain was pretty much inpenetrable.

[wileynj]

Originally Posted by nicolem

What about the fact that illegals supress American wages? Your posts seem to imply you are for the working man? Why not put Americans and those immigrants who came here legally first? It is not my problem Mexico doesn't have jobs. That is the government of Mexico's problem-who btw- is rich. They should care about their citizens instead of supplying them with maps on how to sneak over the border illegally. Everyone always cripes about high NJ taxes. What about all the welfare, hospital, esl classes etc that are provided to illegals.

The only thing we need to do to solve this problem is seal the border and enforce current immigration law.

Do they? Or is it the people who hire them...American's who hire them that supress the wages? I think your anger is pointed in the wrong direction... I am a contractor and I know all about people hiring illegals in order to undercut the legitimate contractors... is it the immigrants fault or the business owner? And what about Jane Doe down the road that hires a landscaper who hires illegals so she can save a few bucks each month? Isn't she part of the problem??? Hate the game not the player... you need to blame Americans who fund this influx of illegals.