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Old 05-21-2008, 06:13 PM
 
9,124 posts, read 30,938,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrjersey View Post
I remember about a year or so ago seeing something about how schools can raise their rankings by offering students the option to take more AP exams. The rankings don't take into consideration the percentage of students passing the exams.

In fact if you look at the FAQ section of the article, question 3 answers this. I'm not impressed by the answer and therefore I'm not impressed by the rankings.

I went to Columbia High School and even though it was a long time ago I can't believe it made this list when other schools did not.
A good point, and part of what Tahiti and i are discussing. In most cases, broad-sweeping generalities regarding the performance of one area over another are pretty useless, and even using these studies to validate the performance of one school needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Nothing beats personal experience with regard to something like evaluating a school.
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Old 05-21-2008, 07:33 PM
 
3,269 posts, read 8,379,873 times
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Who cares about the schools in GA. This ain't the GA board right?

I am really shocked Montgomery isn't on the list. NJ Monthly usually has it in the top 5.
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Old 05-21-2008, 07:38 PM
 
9,124 posts, read 30,938,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKOK View Post
Who cares about the schools in GA. This ain't the GA board right?

.
Nope, it sure isn't (you've got an incredible grasp of the obvious, btw- you should become a CSI agent or something ), but I believe the OP's statement at the beginning of the thread was "List of public high school ranks, thought this might interest some of you" not "Here's the list of public high school ranks in NJ, thought this might interest some of you in NJ". The OP is also located in NM- does that mean he shouldn't be posting here?

Sorry if our banter disturbed your enjoyment of the forum- we can go back to pissing and moaning about Corzine, property taxes, and the price of gas if you'd like.......
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Old 05-21-2008, 07:54 PM
 
Location: NJ
12,284 posts, read 29,572,161 times
Reputation: 5166
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKOK View Post
Who cares about the schools in GA. This ain't the GA board right?

I am really shocked Montgomery isn't on the list. NJ Monthly usually has it in the top 5.
that's why i'm shocked and need to read the methodology used - i was under the impression NJ Monthly and Newsweek's criteria were about the same.

i'll have to rub it in my sister-in-law's face.
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Old 05-21-2008, 08:09 PM
 
Location: NJ
12,284 posts, read 29,572,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
I'm not trying to determine whether it's a "good" ranking or not, though the criteria seems to make some sense- but seeing how both states are ranked on the same criteria, I'd say it's a "fair" comparision (as in not biased).

I've actually tried to find the data that gives GA the poor rap that it gets, and I can't find it- everything I find shows it to do very well. I've found SAT reports that place GA only a few points beind NJ on average SAT score, NCLB results that put them very close (though just about every state is doing pretty bad on the NCLB scale), and now this report- I can't find the data that's creating the negativity about the GA schools as a whole.
but see, here's the thing, hopefully i can articulate this well enough.

you're taking a sample of the "BEST" (WTF that is) schools in the nation, seeing GA has more than NJ, and saying basically "GA's just as good as NJ". when I point out graduation rates are worse in GA, you counter "well, there are more poor, rural parts of GA so that's why the rates are lower". so when a "whole to whole" comparison is done (by, say, grad rates) between the 2 states, you're saying it "doesn't count". when a "partial to partial" comparison is done (meaning, this study) and GA has more schools in the top list, you're saying "AHA! GA is just as good". say a ranking was done of the 1300 worst school in the US, and GA had more...what would you say? You'd say "Well, GA has more poor areas so it's not a valid or fair comparision". Why not?

I know that didn't make sense.

Bottom line, you're easy to dismiss whole state rankings that put GA on the lower part of list, but you're very eager to embrace partial rankings that put GA schools ahead of NJ. My point is either you like 'em all, or like 'em none. LOL

Personally, I like what you said above that personal experience trumps all. It's silly to compare states to each other. My personal opinion on these state rankings is if you're moving to a state with a low graduation rate, or a lower percentage of kids going to college, you probably have to do a little more homework to find a specific school district that bucks the trend. As far as NJ goes, mostly likely if you throw a dart on a map of the state and don't land in an Abbott district, you're going to get at least an adequate education. I don't think the same can be said of all states, KWIM? And therein lies the difference. It doesn't mean every.single.NJ.district is better than every.single.GA.district.

i've rambled enough. but i'm still rubbing the absence of Montgomery in my sister-in-law's face, LOL.
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Old 05-21-2008, 08:36 PM
 
786 posts, read 2,179,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
I didn't read the criteria, but there's one glaring NJ school omission: Montgomery.

and another observation from my husband after i rattled them off - all but 3 are north of trenton.
Well, it was there in 2007, 2006, and 2005....somnething must have happened, either the graduating class sucked the last time out, or someone forgot it

Cranford though has improved a LOT, from being MIA in the rankings in 2003, to Top 40 in 2005, Top 25 in 2006, and Top 20 today...

2003: NONE
2005: #41
2006: #25
2007: #18
2008: #19
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Old 05-21-2008, 08:51 PM
 
Location: NJ
12,284 posts, read 29,572,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalim2008 View Post
Well, it was there in 2007, 2006, and 2005....somnething must have happened, either the graduating class sucked the last time out, or someone forgot it

Cranford though has improved a LOT, from being MIA in the rankings in 2003, to Top 40 in 2005, Top 25 in 2006, and Top 20 today...

2003: NONE
2005: #41
2006: #25
2007: #18
2008: #19
i don't think cranford improved A LOT, I think the methodology changed A LOT. i remember last year newsweek's methodology was VERY wonky and a vast majority that were on 2006's list didn't make it - goes to show you can massage stats to give any message you want.

as far as montgomery - nothing's changed. my guess is it got lost somewhere in the shuffle. you can't hang your hat on these rankings, unless of course your school makes the list.
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Old 05-21-2008, 08:52 PM
EB2 EB2 started this thread
 
Location: Florida
1,927 posts, read 5,117,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
Nope, it sure isn't (you've got an incredible grasp of the obvious, btw- you should become a CSI agent or something ), but I believe the OP's statement at the beginning of the thread was "List of public high school ranks, thought this might interest some of you" not "Here's the list of public high school ranks in NJ, thought this might interest some of you in NJ". The OP is also located in NM- does that mean he shouldn't be posting here?

Sorry if our banter disturbed your enjoyment of the forum- we can go back to pissing and moaning about Corzine, property taxes, and the price of gas if you'd like.......

*FL - and I'm moving to NJ.

*She (it's okay, everyone thinks I'm a man. I chose this handle so my gender wasn't easy to figure out).

And exactly. I did post it for New Jerseyans to see the rankings of schools, perhaps someone who wants to know later about schools can go back on this thread (even though half the time statistics don't mean horse-poo, to put it kindly), or people can see how their schools ranked (if they're on the list), etc. However, I also figured other people would check out other states, too. It was a 50/50 deal.

Some argument/debate is nice, but I didn't mean for people to argue over whose school is better than so and so's.

I just figured it was a nice change from "Tell me about this town" "Corzine" "Taxes" etc.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:40 PM
 
786 posts, read 2,179,958 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
i don't think cranford improved A LOT, I think the methodology changed A LOT. i remember last year newsweek's methodology was VERY wonky and a vast majority that were on 2006's list didn't make it - goes to show you can massage stats to give any message you want.

as far as montgomery - nothing's changed. my guess is it got lost somewhere in the shuffle. you can't hang your hat on these rankings, unless of course your school makes the list.
I compared 2006 to 2007, and the top schools seemed to have remained very similar. Macnair, Ridge, princeton, craesskill, Bernards, etc.....Not sure how you can say the MAJORITY in 2006 dropped out in 2007..

Also, I believe this measures SENIOR achievements, so the ranking SHOULD change year by year as the seniors in that school change unless the school is consistently producing top people.

Specifically, the methodology is:

They take the total number of Advanced Placement, International Baccalaureate or Cambridge (http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Cambridge - broken link) tests given at a school in May, and divide by the number of seniors graduating in May or June. How well the students do in those tests are also included by using something called Equity and Excellence rate.

One thing to note is that if they do not have data for a school that year and the school does not give it to them, the school obviously drops out of the ranking...this could explain Montgomery...


I looked at the methodology, and it seems that this rankings reflects how throughly a school prepares its total student base for college. It looks at toal student preparation for college, but also including a way to measure how well students did in each school.

It admonishes certain schools that try to artificially inflate test scores....

To send a student off to college without having had an AP, IB or Cambridge course and test is like insisting that a child learn to ride a bike without ever taking off the training wheels until the day you send the kid out onto the city streets alone. It is dumb, and in my view a form of educational malpractice. But most American high schools still do it. I don't think such schools should be rewarded because they have artificially high AP or IB passing rates achieved by making certain just their best students take the tests.

Last edited by kalim2008; 05-21-2008 at 09:51 PM..
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Old 05-21-2008, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 2,508,015 times
Reputation: 328
all I know is that Florida has more schools on the list than NJ AND GA combined, so much for crappy FLA schools
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