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Old 06-16-2008, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Weehawken, NJ
2,179 posts, read 5,979,006 times
Reputation: 1150

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From NJ.com.

Sickening...

More NJ school officials make more than $200K - Breaking News From New Jersey - NJ.com
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:45 PM
 
13,460 posts, read 14,445,292 times
Reputation: 7636
You don't get it, do you?

We have to be willing to pay top dollar in order to maintain our national ranking of 35th or so on SAT scores.
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Weehawken, NJ
2,179 posts, read 5,979,006 times
Reputation: 1150
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc1 View Post
You don't get it, do you?

We have to be willing to pay top dollar in order to maintain our national ranking of 35th or so on SAT scores.
LOL! I am trying to wrap my feeble little head around the "well, if it costs an arm, leg, and first born, it must be good!" mentality New Jersey residents have!
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Old 06-17-2008, 08:19 AM
 
619 posts, read 1,914,251 times
Reputation: 344
Now here's an issue worth 23 pages!!!!
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:43 AM
 
31 posts, read 93,624 times
Reputation: 36
Default Dare Teachers To Quit By Cutting Pay!!!!

Dare teachers and administrators to quit. Cut their salary by 10% and see if they really want to work in the private sector or not. Do they really want to get 2 weeks vacation, after 3 years with an employer, or 2 weeks vacation ----for their first Xmas break? Do they want a 401k, with a 2% match of their first 4% contributed and the same extra medical benefits we get in retirement (none) or do they want their guaranteed pensions and low cost medical for life?

Do people really believe that teachers will quit in droves at massive pay cuts? Are they all really cut out to design chips for Intel, run hedge funds for JP Morgan or manage Walmart Supercenters? If they had those unique talents, then wouldn't they have pursued that as a career already, for the most part? Dare teachers to quit by cutting pay drastically and open up teaching to anyone with any 4 year degree, not just education majors! I think our school districts would be overwhelmed by the people who would jump at the chance to have summers off and medical for life, even with a big salary cut. I had some great teachers and mentors, as have my children, people who would teach for 2/3 the pay, as long as the incredible benefits stayed the same.

Would the teachers that you know quit over a 10% pay cut? How about 15% or 20%? If people with any college degree were allowed to take their place, then how low would the cuts go? Imagine how much lower NJ property taxes would be!

In NJ, teachers always get a Thursday and Friday off in mid-November for teacher training. My former neighbors, both experienced teachers, had a running joke with me about it. I'd see them loading their luxury SUV and ask them where they were "training" this year. They'd laugh and say Florida or the Bahamas or Vail. I don't think they'd give up that lifestyle to become accountants or Gap managers for a little more money.

Adding insult to injury, my family would have to burn a limited vacation day, to cover the teacher's Columbus Day holiday only a month earlier, then two more days to cover this "teacher training." Winter and spring breaks also used up favors from family and more vacation time. Then, in the summer, we would have to spend money on summer camps for childcare gaps, since school was out. The head counselors and directors? Yep, teachers rotating in the jobs to get a break from being with their own kids all summer and to make even more money! The teachers union has quite a scam going.

The only way to stop the madness and the property tax increases is to find the professionals willing to change careers and take on the teachers union. Give people background checks and quick summarizations of the education courses that people took in college. Then, cut pay and dare the teachers to strike or quit. Immediately fire anyone that doesn't show up for work and begin to change the system forever. It will be painful at first, some of the initial hires might have to cover 2 or 3 classrooms for a few days, as we find out who will cross the picket line and continue to teach. Eventually, a free market approach to teaching will result in decent teachers who appreciate the amazing benefit package they receive, yet understand that NJ property taxes were unsustainable, in large part due to the former union.

Yep, it's a pipe dream and it's too radical. It will never happen. That's why we left NJ for NC, along with thousands of others. Our house and yard are twice as big now and our property taxes are half the cost. We still have great schools and there's no complaints about winter temps in the 50's, either. It's not perfect here, as any of us transplants would admit, but we'd never consider going back, either. Thanks for listening to my ranting.
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:03 AM
 
1,977 posts, read 6,632,588 times
Reputation: 1155
Car manufacturers need to do the same thing IMO.

NCGuy, come back to NJ, I'll vote for you as Governor!
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:21 AM
 
619 posts, read 1,914,251 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCguy View Post
Dare teachers and administrators to quit. Cut their salary by 10% and see if they really want to work in the private sector or not. Do they really want to get 2 weeks vacation, after 3 years with an employer, or 2 weeks vacation ----for their first Xmas break? Do they want a 401k, with a 2% match of their first 4% contributed and the same extra medical benefits we get in retirement (none) or do they want their guaranteed pensions and low cost medical for life?

Do people really believe that teachers will quit in droves at massive pay cuts? Are they all really cut out to design chips for Intel, run hedge funds for JP Morgan or manage Walmart Supercenters? If they had those unique talents, then wouldn't they have pursued that as a career already, for the most part? Dare teachers to quit by cutting pay drastically and open up teaching to anyone with any 4 year degree, not just education majors! I think our school districts would be overwhelmed by the people who would jump at the chance to have summers off and medical for life, even with a big salary cut. I had some great teachers and mentors, as have my children, people who would teach for 2/3 the pay, as long as the incredible benefits stayed the same.

Would the teachers that you know quit over a 10% pay cut? How about 15% or 20%? If people with any college degree were allowed to take their place, then how low would the cuts go? Imagine how much lower NJ property taxes would be!

In NJ, teachers always get a Thursday and Friday off in mid-November for teacher training. My former neighbors, both experienced teachers, had a running joke with me about it. I'd see them loading their luxury SUV and ask them where they were "training" this year. They'd laugh and say Florida or the Bahamas or Vail. I don't think they'd give up that lifestyle to become accountants or Gap managers for a little more money.

Adding insult to injury, my family would have to burn a limited vacation day, to cover the teacher's Columbus Day holiday only a month earlier, then two more days to cover this "teacher training." Winter and spring breaks also used up favors from family and more vacation time. Then, in the summer, we would have to spend money on summer camps for childcare gaps, since school was out. The head counselors and directors? Yep, teachers rotating in the jobs to get a break from being with their own kids all summer and to make even more money! The teachers union has quite a scam going.

The only way to stop the madness and the property tax increases is to find the professionals willing to change careers and take on the teachers union. Give people background checks and quick summarizations of the education courses that people took in college. Then, cut pay and dare the teachers to strike or quit. Immediately fire anyone that doesn't show up for work and begin to change the system forever. It will be painful at first, some of the initial hires might have to cover 2 or 3 classrooms for a few days, as we find out who will cross the picket line and continue to teach. Eventually, a free market approach to teaching will result in decent teachers who appreciate the amazing benefit package they receive, yet understand that NJ property taxes were unsustainable, in large part due to the former union.

Yep, it's a pipe dream and it's too radical. It will never happen. That's why we left NJ for NC, along with thousands of others. Our house and yard are twice as big now and our property taxes are half the cost. We still have great schools and there's no complaints about winter temps in the 50's, either. It's not perfect here, as any of us transplants would admit, but we'd never consider going back, either. Thanks for listening to my ranting.

...and just think...there are a ton of uneducated sex offenders that would probably take teaching jobs for like a 50- 60% cut from current salaries...think of the additional money we could save on background checks.

flawless plan! well thought through. I especially like the part where people with no experience in education take over 2-3 classrooms at a time...that should work very well.

A+!
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:55 AM
 
9,124 posts, read 32,094,329 times
Reputation: 3519
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCguy View Post
Dare teachers and administrators to quit. Cut their salary by 10% and see if they really want to work in the private sector or not. Do they really want to get 2 weeks vacation, after 3 years with an employer, or 2 weeks vacation ----for their first Xmas break? Do they want a 401k, with a 2% match of their first 4% contributed and the same extra medical benefits we get in retirement (none) or do they want their guaranteed pensions and low cost medical for life?

Do people really believe that teachers will quit in droves at massive pay cuts? Are they all really cut out to design chips for Intel, run hedge funds for JP Morgan or manage Walmart Supercenters? If they had those unique talents, then wouldn't they have pursued that as a career already, for the most part? Dare teachers to quit by cutting pay drastically and open up teaching to anyone with any 4 year degree, not just education majors! I think our school districts would be overwhelmed by the people who would jump at the chance to have summers off and medical for life, even with a big salary cut. I had some great teachers and mentors, as have my children, people who would teach for 2/3 the pay, as long as the incredible benefits stayed the same.

Would the teachers that you know quit over a 10% pay cut? How about 15% or 20%? If people with any college degree were allowed to take their place, then how low would the cuts go? Imagine how much lower NJ property taxes would be!

In NJ, teachers always get a Thursday and Friday off in mid-November for teacher training. My former neighbors, both experienced teachers, had a running joke with me about it. I'd see them loading their luxury SUV and ask them where they were "training" this year. They'd laugh and say Florida or the Bahamas or Vail. I don't think they'd give up that lifestyle to become accountants or Gap managers for a little more money.

Adding insult to injury, my family would have to burn a limited vacation day, to cover the teacher's Columbus Day holiday only a month earlier, then two more days to cover this "teacher training." Winter and spring breaks also used up favors from family and more vacation time. Then, in the summer, we would have to spend money on summer camps for childcare gaps, since school was out. The head counselors and directors? Yep, teachers rotating in the jobs to get a break from being with their own kids all summer and to make even more money! The teachers union has quite a scam going.

The only way to stop the madness and the property tax increases is to find the professionals willing to change careers and take on the teachers union. Give people background checks and quick summarizations of the education courses that people took in college. Then, cut pay and dare the teachers to strike or quit. Immediately fire anyone that doesn't show up for work and begin to change the system forever. It will be painful at first, some of the initial hires might have to cover 2 or 3 classrooms for a few days, as we find out who will cross the picket line and continue to teach. Eventually, a free market approach to teaching will result in decent teachers who appreciate the amazing benefit package they receive, yet understand that NJ property taxes were unsustainable, in large part due to the former union.

Yep, it's a pipe dream and it's too radical. It will never happen. That's why we left NJ for NC, along with thousands of others. Our house and yard are twice as big now and our property taxes are half the cost. We still have great schools and there's no complaints about winter temps in the 50's, either. It's not perfect here, as any of us transplants would admit, but we'd never consider going back, either. Thanks for listening to my ranting.
Wow- sounds like you'd be the perfect candidate, seeing how your teacher-neighbors had it so good. How come you haven't signed up for the cushy life through the alternative route yet? After all, it'd solve all of your scheduling problems, and with the low cost of living in NC, you could probably be vacationing on the Riviera all summer, no??
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:07 PM
 
31 posts, read 93,624 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mczabe View Post
...and just think...there are a ton of uneducated sex offenders that would probably take teaching jobs for like a 50- 60% cut from current salaries...think of the additional money we could save on background checks.

flawless plan! well thought through. I especially like the part where people with no experience in education take over 2-3 classrooms at a time...that should work very well.

A+!

I'm pretty sure I mentioned background checks, genius. Oh yes, you even quoted it. Why would you assume something like that would change? Is an education major at Glassboro State, I mean Rowan University, smarter or less likely to be a sex offender than a business major? That sounds like the typical hyperbole and type of scare tactic the teacher's union would use, when threatened with working for a more appropriate pay package. Why must you change my words and act like I'd let an uneducated person teach anyone's children? Why not totally go for it and say I'd let a drug dealing, crack-head, animal abusing, sex offender teach our kids?

My point was that if a free market decided the ENTIRE teacher benefit and pay package, including time off, I think they'd make substantially less. If teaching is impossibly hard and nobody would teach for less money, then the free market would dictate higher pay, so teachers should love such a challenge.

Along these lines, I don't see teaching jobs in good school systems being hard to fill. Here are the vast number of vacancies in Glen Ridge, for example:

POSTING (http://glenridge.org/postings/posting.htm - broken link)

Look at all the jobs that nobody wants. Oh, there basically aren't any. But let's give them a raise, just in case somebody wants to move into the private sector some day.

Well, surely, Holmdel High School, another good school, must have lots of openings, right? Here it is:

Holmdel Township Public Schools

Yep, they have a 4 month, temp job opening, that's it. Maybe the union will tell us about the great teacher shortage next? There's a shortage in an urban district like Asbury Park, perhaps, but most education majors would rather be a substitute or manage their local Gap or CVS, until an easier spot opens up, it seems like.

If we want to give a group of public servants the entire summer off, plus lots of time off for holidays, then maybe we should give it to police officers instead.

As far as other college grads not being smart enough to teach, well, we all know everybody has to take the same core courses in college. After that, we specialized more and more. Do you really think someone that took a computer science major, with lots of math and science work beyond the core classes, isn't as smart or capable of teaching, than someone that took the same math and science core, along with early childhood education I and II in lieu of programming classes? Again, this is the kind of thing the union will say to protect it's territory.

As far as taking over 2-3 classrooms for a few days, that is a real world scenario that could happen in a true picket line situation. It would be a small sacrifice to pay in the long run. I know all tenured teachers cover a TON of material in those first couple of days, a new teacher couldn't possibly catch up in the first month, much less marking period. Since I know some teachers wouldn't change careers for a paycut and give up their extensive time off and great retirement package, the experienced teachers could handle those situations, with new hires allowed to begin the school year in a normal fashion, until more educated, background checked new teachers were brought aboard. Most experienced teachers I've met can handle another 25 kids for a day or two, even a week or two, and they could probably sneak in a few lessons as well, not simply manage the crowd. Give the teachers you're sticking up for some credit. I was thinking this through a little bit, in terms of how it would play out. Taking down such a powerful union would be very hard, would require a massive recruitment of new teachers and much planning. Parents and police might have to escort children to school past angry, out of work teachers, it wouldn't be pretty or easy. Neither was integration, though.
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:09 PM
 
646 posts, read 2,382,883 times
Reputation: 141
LOL.................

As the husband of an Educator may I just say of these postings,..."the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence"...!
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