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06-19-2008, 11:48 AM
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Location: High Bridge, NJ
3,858 posts, read 9,524,188 times
Reputation: 3392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421
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It actually has nothing to do with the firearm laws and everything to do with suburban sprawl and the lousy attitudes toward hunting and hunters by those perpetuating the sprawl. As a hunter I'm torn over the issue. I hunt what I eat (duck, turkey, rabbit, squirrel, pheasant, and of course deer), and I (along with most folks) don't eat bear. Bear is tough, fatty, and greasy. Bears also, unlike the aforementioned animals are opportunistic scavengers and will eat dead things they happen upon. The flesh of even occasional carrion eaters is not particularly tasty.
The bears are also the victim of this state's out of control overdevelopment. Unlike deer who thrive on and propagate in the "edge habitat" that is created by sprawl, bears are simply being pushed out. Due to the creation of edge habitat there are more deer in New Jersey than during colonial times. The dense forests that were once commonplace are gone. Deer traditionally lived on the outskirts of these dense forests, using them only for cover if needed. The rest of the time they would skirt the edges of the forest in search of grazing areas. Now we've created isolated areas of deep cover surrounded by large tracts of grazing land in the form of subdivisions with lush green lawns, landscaping, and gardens. As a result, deer populations have skyrocketed.
The bear population on the other hand has pretty much stayed static, the problem is that the human population has exploded. A bear's range can be as much as 30 miles. I dare you to walk in any one direction for 30 miles in Sussex, Warren, Morris, Hunterdon, or Passaic Counties and not find a house, road, etc... However, not only have the bears been "bumping into" civilization for a while now, they've also been lured in by human stupidity. My fiancee's family has lived in Sussex County for a very long time. She, like her father and mother and so on and so on, were taught the following from a very young age:
-Garbage goes out to the curb the morning of, not the night before, and it should be locked up in a shed, garage, etc...in a sealed can.
-Bird feeders should be hung very high on a long tree limb that a bear can't possibly climb to.
-Dogs, rabbits, etc...should NEVER be left out unattended on a run or chain.
-If you encounter a bear and leave it alone it will leave you alone. If it shows interest in you, first wave your arms, shout and clap your hands-if that doesn't work, slowly back away (facing the bear at all times-NEVER turn your back) and if you can, remove an article of clothing or object and leave it on the ground as you walk away. The bear will be more interested in stuff with your scent on it and become preoccupied.
The first three of these rules are the ones most violated by the folks who want to "move to the country" and "get away from it all." Then they complain that the deer are eating their million dollar landscaping, they're afraid of Lyme's Disease, and the bears are getting into their garbage. My prediction is that eventually someone will be attacked or mauled (probably because they did something stupid) and that will serve as the tipping point for a hunt. Although I believe it's necessary I have no interest in participating however. |
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06-19-2008, 12:17 PM
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Location: The Communist State of NJ
7,183 posts, read 11,410,982 times
Reputation: 3695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
It actually has nothing to do with the firearm laws and everything to do with suburban sprawl and the lousy attitudes toward hunting and hunters by those perpetuating the sprawl. As a hunter I'm torn over the issue. I hunt what I eat (duck, turkey, rabbit, squirrel, pheasant, and of course deer), and I (along with most folks) don't eat bear. Bear is tough, fatty, and greasy. Bears also, unlike the aforementioned animals are opportunistic scavengers and will eat dead things they happen upon. The flesh of even occasional carrion eaters is not particularly tasty.
The bears are also the victim of this state's out of control overdevelopment. Unlike deer who thrive on and propagate in the "edge habitat" that is created by sprawl, bears are simply being pushed out. Due to the creation of edge habitat there are more deer in New Jersey than during colonial times. The dense forests that were once commonplace are gone. Deer traditionally lived on the outskirts of these dense forests, using them only for cover if needed. The rest of the time they would skirt the edges of the forest in search of grazing areas. Now we've created isolated areas of deep cover surrounded by large tracts of grazing land in the form of subdivisions with lush green lawns, landscaping, and gardens. As a result, deer populations have skyrocketed.
The bear population on the other hand has pretty much stayed static, the problem is that the human population has exploded. A bear's range can be as much as 30 miles. I dare you to walk in any one direction for 30 miles in Sussex, Warren, Morris, Hunterdon, or Passaic Counties and not find a house, road, etc... However, not only have the bears been "bumping into" civilization for a while now, they've also been lured in by human stupidity. My fiancee's family has lived in Sussex County for a very long time. She, like her father and mother and so on and so on, were taught the following from a very young age:
-Garbage goes out to the curb the morning of, not the night before, and it should be locked up in a shed, garage, etc...in a sealed can.
-Bird feeders should be hung very high on a long tree limb that a bear can't possibly climb to.
-Dogs, rabbits, etc...should NEVER be left out unattended on a run or chain.
-If you encounter a bear and leave it alone it will leave you alone. If it shows interest in you, first wave your arms, shout and clap your hands-if that doesn't work, slowly back away (facing the bear at all times-NEVER turn your back) and if you can, remove an article of clothing or object and leave it on the ground as you walk away. The bear will be more interested in stuff with your scent on it and become preoccupied.
The first three of these rules are the ones most violated by the folks who want to "move to the country" and "get away from it all." Then they complain that the deer are eating their million dollar landscaping, they're afraid of Lyme's Disease, and the bears are getting into their garbage. My prediction is that eventually someone will be attacked or mauled (probably because they did something stupid) and that will serve as the tipping point for a hunt. Although I believe it's necessary I have no interest in participating however.
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Well said! I can't add one word to it.  |
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06-19-2008, 12:45 PM
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Location: NJ
12,285 posts, read 34,510,486 times
Reputation: 5298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
.
-Garbage goes out to the curb the morning of, not the night before, and it should be locked up in a shed, garage, etc...in a sealed can.
-Bird feeders should be hung very high on a long tree limb that a bear can't possibly climb to.
-Dogs, rabbits, etc...should NEVER be left out unattended on a run or chain.
-If you encounter a bear and leave it alone it will leave you alone. If it shows interest in you, first wave your arms, shout and clap your hands-if that doesn't work, slowly back away (facing the bear at all times-NEVER turn your back) and if you can, remove an article of clothing or object and leave it on the ground as you walk away. The bear will be more interested in stuff with your scent on it and become preoccupied.
The first three of these rules are the ones most violated by the folks who want to "move to the country" and "get away from it all." Then they complain that the deer are eating their million dollar landscaping, they're afraid of Lyme's Disease, and the bears are getting into their garbage. My prediction is that eventually someone will be attacked or mauled (probably because they did something stupid) and that will serve as the tipping point for a hunt. Although I believe it's necessary I have no interest in participating however.
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In defense of us who "moved to the country" and "get away from it all"  - I had absolutely no idea there were steps (if you will) to take to prevent or deal with bears on your property (or elsewhere). I honestly had no idea there were even bears (or a deer PROBLEM) when I moved out here! I don't think it's a matter of people with an "entitlement" problem (not the right word, but I think you get my drift), it's truly not knowing these things were even an issue moving from an urban environment. You can't question what you don't know, KWIM?
I'm VERY concerned about deer as my son has had Lyme twice!  However, we don't have a deer "problem" per se where I specifically live. I've heard of 1 or 2 bear sightings in my immediate area in the past few years. |
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06-19-2008, 01:02 PM
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Location: High Bridge, NJ
3,858 posts, read 9,524,188 times
Reputation: 3392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti
In defense of us who "moved to the country" and "get away from it all" - I had absolutely no idea there were steps (if you will) to take to prevent or deal with bears on your property (or elsewhere). I honestly had no idea there were even bears (or a deer PROBLEM) when I moved out here! I don't think it's a matter of people with an "entitlement" problem (not the right word, but I think you get my drift), it's truly not knowing these things were even an issue moving from an urban environment. You can't question what you don't know, KWIM? |
Fair enough Seriously though-what county do you live in? Many counties/towns have instituted "bear awareness" programs that talk about the steps I mentioned. The "back away and leave things behind" method was something that my fiancee learned in elementary school when a Fish and Wildlife Officer came to speak about bear safety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti
I'm VERY concerned about deer as my son has had Lyme twice! However, we don't have a deer "problem" per se where I specifically live. I've heard of 1 or 2 bear sightings in my immediate area in the past few years. |
It depends on your definition of "problem." A lot of times I hear about people who wake up on a serene Sunday morning to see a herd of does grazing on the front lawn. Cute and cuddly to the average person, but to a wildlife biologist its indicative of a problem. The edge habitat created by the development in the area has facilitated overpopulation of deer in the area, and the abundance of edible foliage has ensured that the overpopulation will be sustained.
We happen to have a top notch, nationally respected department of Fish, Game and Wildlife here in New Jersey. The biologists and scientists at FG&W work VERY closely with folks at Cook College at Rutgers which in and of itself is a nationally respected institution of biological and animal sciences. Unfortunately however, misinformed public opinion and just plain politics gets in the way of the good scientific work that FG&W does...kinda sounds familiar doesn't it? |
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06-19-2008, 01:11 PM
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Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,247 posts, read 27,515,780 times
Reputation: 11526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
Fair enough Seriously though-what county do you live in? Many counties/towns have instituted "bear awareness" programs that talk about the steps I mentioned. The "back away and leave things behind" method was something that my fiancee learned in elementary school when a Fish and Wildlife Officer came to speak about bear safety.
It depends on your definition of "problem." A lot of times I hear about people who wake up on a serene Sunday morning to see a herd of does grazing on the front lawn. Cute and cuddly to the average person, but to a wildlife biologist its indicative of a problem. The edge habitat created by the development in the area has facilitated overpopulation of deer in the area, and the abundance of edible foliage has ensured that the overpopulation will be sustained.
We happen to have a top notch, nationally respected department of Fish, Game and Wildlife here in New Jersey. The biologists and scientists at FG&W work VERY closely with folks at Cook College at Rutgers which in and of itself is a nationally respected institution of biological and animal sciences. Unfortunately however, misinformed public opinion and just plain politics gets in the way of the good scientific work that FG&W does...kinda sounds familiar doesn't it? |
Ah yes....20 or so years ago we were the ONLY house on the road surrounded by 16 acres of woods....we knew the deer were there..evidence of them along the edge..now those 16 acres are home to McMansions..I have a small herd that hangs in the neighborhood and are in my yard a lot..alas i gave up on a garden because of them...so familiar they don't even faze the dog anymore |
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06-19-2008, 05:01 PM
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240 posts, read 919,805 times
Reputation: 85
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This took place where I live and teach. Our school was in a lock in for the whole day. My poor class showed up yesterday with their bathing suits ready for our end of the year party and water balloon fight and we couldn't go outdoors because of the bear. I bought them all little bears at the dollar store for their gift to remind them of the bear who ruined our party.
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06-19-2008, 05:32 PM
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Location: NJ
12,285 posts, read 34,510,486 times
Reputation: 5298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
Fair enough Seriously though-what county do you live in? Many counties/towns have instituted "bear awareness" programs that talk about the steps I mentioned. The "back away and leave things behind" method was something that my fiancee learned in elementary school when a Fish and Wildlife Officer came to speak about bear safety.
It depends on your definition of "problem." A lot of times I hear about people who wake up on a serene Sunday morning to see a herd of does grazing on the front lawn. Cute and cuddly to the average person, but to a wildlife biologist its indicative of a problem. The edge habitat created by the development in the area has facilitated overpopulation of deer in the area, and the abundance of edible foliage has ensured that the overpopulation will be sustained.
We happen to have a top notch, nationally respected department of Fish, Game and Wildlife here in New Jersey. The biologists and scientists at FG&W work VERY closely with folks at Cook College at Rutgers which in and of itself is a nationally respected institution of biological and animal sciences. Unfortunately however, misinformed public opinion and just plain politics gets in the way of the good scientific work that FG&W does...kinda sounds familiar doesn't it? |
I live in Western Morris County - maybe 20 minutes from you, lol I'm not aware of any "bear education" going on, doesn't mean it doesn't exist though. I've learned over the years what to do, but my original point (which I know you got) was even *asking* about such things wasn't even on my radar!
And, no, I seriously don't have a deer problem in my *immediate* area. They don't come on my lawn or in my backyard. I've seen deer in the fields behind my house maybe a 1/2 dozen times. I see more wild turkey than deer. However, my previous house, same town, a few miles away - the deer would eat everything in my front and back yard. |
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06-19-2008, 07:34 PM
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115 posts, read 429,964 times
Reputation: 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
-If you encounter a bear and leave it alone it will leave you alone. If it shows interest in you, first wave your arms, shout and clap your hands-if that doesn't work, slowly back away (facing the bear at all times-NEVER turn your back) and if you can, remove an article of clothing or object and leave it on the ground as you walk away. The bear will be more interested in stuff with your scent on it and become preoccupied.
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Thanks for all the advice Badfish. Never knew the one about removing clothes. Either Yogi will be amused or disgusted! |
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06-19-2008, 07:37 PM
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1,365 posts, read 3,798,713 times
Reputation: 877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421
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A wild animal at a McDonald's drive-thru? Even they have been sucked into our consumer lifestyles, LOL.
I wonder if it was driving a Toyota Prius? This would make the bear both trendy and earth-friendly! |
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