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Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'm assuming that a long, long time ago there was still a time when a typical blue-collar middle-class family without college degrees could afford to purchase a home in places such as Alpine, Hoboken, or Sparta. Now these three communities are inarguably some of the more exclusive places to reside in Northern New Jersey with many executive-style homes (or upscale rowhomes, lofts, and condos in more urban Hoboken).
A big gripe I read about on this forum is that the middle-class is progressively getting more and more squeezed-out of NJ and into cheaper areas like PA or NC with each passing year. Historically speaking when did the mass influx of the upper-middle-class from New York City start to "invade" Northern New Jersey and transform it from being home to a few industrial cities with working-class neighborhoods and slightly more upscale suburbs into being endless suburbia with high taxation and exorbitant housing prices? Perhaps if we can identify just when such a drastic shift began to occur we can brainstorm remedies on how to restore Northern NJ to being a place where everyone can afford to purchase a home. It pains me to see homes that would sell here in Northeastern Pennsylvania for merely $200,000 selling for 2.5 times as much in Northeastern NJ. Granted higher median household incomes do factor in here, but naturally folks in NJ are NOT earning 2.5 times more, on average, than folks in NEPA, so why the massive disparity in housing prices?
Did this all start with the G.I. Bill after WWII when "Levittowns" began to pop up across the landscape?
Last edited by SteelCityRising; 08-13-2008 at 01:27 PM..
Reason: Typo
I think it started in the mid 90s when NYC was undergoing a prosperous transformation with regard to their housing market, specifically Manhattan, and some better neighborhoods in the outer boroughs (Park Slope comes to mind immediately). This set off a 'foil' effect (the term is commonly used by urban planners) whereby sans the inner core of post-industrial era cities, housing values took off in earnest, with the final beneficiaries being those same urban areas which benefitted from 'infill' and gentrification. NYC kind of rose up first, and like a tidal wave, elevated everything around in its wake.
That's obviously going to vary according to how subjective one is and will be inflated higher in NJ, where in 2006 the median household income was nearly $65,000 and the mean family income was around $100,000. I would presume "middle-class" would be those dually-employed householders with children who are earning between $40,000 and $100,000 annually. Over $100,000 would be "upper-middle-class." Over $200,000 would be "upper-class." Perhaps this would be lowered to $40,000 to $75,000 annually for singles. With those earning over $75,000 being "upper-middle-class." I only earn $15,000 per year, so naturally anything more than what I make sounds like "a lot!" LOL!
I think it started in the mid 90s when NYC was undergoing a prosperous transformation with regard to their housing market, specifically Manhattan, and some better neighborhoods in the outer boroughs (Park Slope comes to mind immediately). This set off a 'foil' effect (the term is commonly used by urban planners) whereby sans the inner core of post-industrial era cities, housing values took off in earnest, with the final beneficiaries being those same urban areas which benefitted from 'infill' and gentrification. NYC kind of rose up first, and like a tidal wave, elevated everything around in its wake.
Interesting. So by your estimation the housing prices in Northern New Jersey in the 1980s were still attainable for most working-class families? I'm just curious, as it seems like Northern New Jersey has so much going for it, yet it boggles my mind how people who earn just $20,000 per year more than we do here in Scranton could be paying thrice as much for housing. I'm just concerned because as college graduation nears for me I'm noticing the extreme dearth of accounting opportunities here in the Poconos. I may have to reside here and commute daily into Northern NJ or just "take the plunge" and hope to be able to afford a home somewhere in Northern NJ on an entry-level CPA salary.
well the suburbs came from white flight out of NYC and hudson county, newark, paterson, and passaic
Right now it is NNJ Gen-Xers who are looking to buy homes and start families
Now most of Gen-X are well educated and have cushy office jobs that pay well, and they want to live in north NJ
So the real estate agents know this and will jack the prices up
Everyone else has to leave
There is also a degree of racism involved
If towns like passaic, north bergen, west new york, weehawken, parts of JC, part of NYC, and etc. were not overrun by what some people consider to be less desirable, we would not have this problem, as some of those areas have great houses, and we would have more of them to increase the supply of homes
well the suburbs came from white flight out of NYC and hudson county, newark, paterson, and passaic
Right now it is NNJ Gen-Xers who are looking to buy homes and start families
Now most of Gen-X are well educated and have cushy office jobs that pay well, and they want to live in north NJ
So the real estate agents know this and will jack the prices up
Everyone else has to leave
There is also a degree of racism involved
If towns like passaic, north bergen, west new york, weehawken, parts of JC, part of NYC, and etc. were not overrun by what some people consider to be less desirable, we would not have this problem, as some of those areas have great houses, and we would have more of them to increase the supply of homes
I was just wondering how blue-collar workers, many of whom don't have degrees, can afford homes in Northern New Jersey. What about those with degrees who traditionally have lower starting salaries (social workers, for example?) What about firefighters? Police officers? Sanitation workers? Massage therapists? Retail workers? How do these people earning $30,000-$40,000 annually afford to purchase homes there, which seem to average around $400,000-$600,000, while raising a family? It just boggles my mind.
Interesting. So by your estimation the housing prices in Northern New Jersey in the 1980s were still attainable for most working-class families? I'm just curious, as it seems like Northern New Jersey has so much going for it, yet it boggles my mind how people who earn just $20,000 per year more than we do here in Scranton could be paying thrice as much for housing. I'm just concerned because as college graduation nears for me I'm noticing the extreme dearth of accounting opportunities here in the Poconos. I may have to reside here and commute daily into Northern NJ or just "take the plunge" and hope to be able to afford a home somewhere in Northern NJ on an entry-level CPA salary.
From between October 19, 1987 for the next at least 6-7 years, the middle class were buying homes quite comfortably. There was a surge in real estate in NJ from between late 1983 to Black Monday, but nothing like what you witnessed in the mid to late 90s.
Sparta, exclusive? Alpine, one time affordable? Not in my lifetime to my knowledge, and I'm an old bag .
Bottom line, Northern NJ's always been expensive. Both of my parents had to work (both blue collar) to afford the first house they purchased in 1968 - at ripe old ages of 40 and 46 (mom was older! go mom ). My first house, purchased 17 years ago (but excuse me while I freak that I'm old enough to have purchased a home that long ago...thank you ), 1400 sq ft split with no basement, cost more than some houses in your neck of the woods today - and the taxes I'm sure were more back THEN than what you guys pay NOW.
But if you're talking about the RECENT bubble, my guess is it started somewhere around 2001/2002 - that's really when I personally saw prices rising faster than income. On the other hand though - when I do an analysis of what my first house would cost in today's dollars -vs- what I paid in a "down" market (after the bust of the late 80's bubble) - it's about what they're selling for, so it's a little confusing to me in that respect.
I think my reality and perspective is a lot different than others here - to me, I never saw the "mom and apple pie" version of life back in the "good old days" - where dad had a nice, normal, middle class job and came home to a cute suburban home and the housewife had his rob roy, newspaper and slippers ready, where everything was affordable, taxes were of no concern, and life was grand. my parents had to work, didn't have a home until middle age, my dad worked 2nd shift to stay home with me as a child, he did the grocery shopping and cooking. so when I hear about the middle class having it so good back then and how only NOW are they getting squeezed out, I question it because it was SOOO far from what I knew, and as a matter of fact, where I grew up - more moms WORKED than didn't.
I was just wondering how blue-collar workers, many of whom don't have degrees, can afford homes in Northern New Jersey. What about those with degrees who traditionally have lower starting salaries (social workers, for example?) What about firefighters? Police officers? Sanitation workers? Massage therapists? Retail workers? How do these people earning $30,000-$40,000 annually afford to purchase homes there, which seem to average around $400,000-$600,000, while raising a family? It just boggles my mind.
NJ Blue collar's new salary is around 50K minimum anymore. Alot of the blue collar people made decent money on homes they sold during the bubble...large down payment on bigger homes = low or even lower mortgage payment on the mcmansion. That's how they can still afford to live in NJ.
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). My first house, purchased 17 years ago (but excuse me while I freak that I'm old enough to have purchased a home that long ago...thank you 
