Minorities will be the majority by 2042 (Princeton: good schools, standard of living, food)

[EEEPNJ]

Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN

Thanks to my upbringing, father and mother bothed worked their whole life, instilled a very hard work ethic in our entire family, we were taught to fend and feed ourselves. And not to think the govt. will save us and support us. We grew up poor and 3 boys lived in a ten by ten room in a tenement in JC. We are all successful and never, ever once collected welfare or unemployment or food stamps. Work, hard work sometimes 16 hours a day with 2 hours sleep and doing it again for years is the answer. Not sitting at home waiting for govt. to provide.

Yet it is too bad that you made $2 too much because then your daughter could have qualified for a hand out to pay for her college education... if you are at $150,000 combined income PAY FOR YOUR DAUGHTERS COLLEGE and stop whining....

[EEEPNJ]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

So true....I also would like to add that the corporate welfare that is given out might be the biggest form of welfare that is hurting the country, but it seems like we let that slide as well. Just ask a Northeasterner about their taxes.

And it is AMAZING how none of the hard-core conservatives quoting 1776 political doctorine EVER address CORPORATE welfare.

[EEEPNJ]

Originally Posted by nicolem

I agree. Many of us grew up with nothing and never took a hand out, welfare, etc.. Parents worked two or three jobs if they had to. We live in a much different world today. I guess it is much easier to demand that the "government" aka the taxpayers provide for you then you get off of your butt and do what needs to be done.

This is just absurd...do you SINCERELY feel that the MAJORITY of our country does not work? That most Americans are stitting around looking for a handout? Please, give me a break. People in the US work their arses off. We work more than any country now - surpassing Japan. MOST people work. And I'm not saying social welfare programs should go unchecked, but it's an absoloute joke to assume THAT is the problem with our country. Our deficit is effected FAR more by corporate welfare, lopsided 'free trade' agreements, and a little quagmire called Iraq than it is by a relatively small # of americans who are on social welfare programs.

[EEEPNJ]

Originally Posted by Spincycle

Back in the day when US was much less diverse, AA was instituted (w/quotas) to [supposedly] help african americans (already here) get ahead in society. Our nation become more much diverse and populated as a result of changing immigration policy (1965) then AA got some negative publicity. Today AA has been replaced with complex diversity models of various sorts (still w/quotas) but expanded for all non-white people. This applies to both people already here and the huge influx of newcomers too (including some that are very educated, very wealthy, and very succesful). So I question the agenda of the diversicrats? It doesn't seem like they care about most African americans since they are handing out preferences to several newbys not in need of it. The system is totally flawed. There must be a better way.

Ironically Barak Obama has addressed having Afirmative Action open to anyone of any race, basing it more on your socioeconomic background.

[spotlight114]

Originally Posted by Sunil's Dad

You "bootstrap pullers" all have a point. "When I was a kid, my parents worked hard. They instilled a work ethic," etc. etc. "They never took handouts." Fine. Dandy. I get it. Really, I do. The problem I have with all this is that your families had the assurance that their efforts would be rewarded, and would not be thwarted, either by government, corporate entities or other citizens. The problem is, these guarantees have never been equally applied to all citizens. Do you actually believe that African Americans have had the same opportunities, either political, social or economic, that your families have had? One of the major sources of the disparity in progress between majorities and minorities in this society has been the calculated efforts by said majority to keep the wealth in its own hands. You can crow all you want about government interference and intervention, and the so-called problems you see in the cultural outlook of said minorities, but when you repress a group long enough, that group soon learns to have lesser expectations. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy that comes from the manner in which this country's societal mores, and economic system, has been set up. You can't expect people to pull themselves up from their bootstraps when they don't have any bootstraps and are kept from acquiring the means to get them. When they want to buy bootstraps, you won't hire them. When they wish to make them, you erect legal and economic barriers to keep them from obtaining the raw materials. When they ask you to give them some, you condemn them for being dependent and having a victim mentality. And when they get desperate and try to steal them, you put them in jail and confiscate their assets through forfeiture.

Great post, ill rep ya!

[EEEPNJ]

Originally Posted by Sunil's Dad

You "bootstrap pullers" all have a point. "When I was a kid, my parents worked hard. They instilled a work ethic," etc. etc. "They never took handouts." Fine. Dandy. I get it. Really, I do. The problem I have with all this is that your families had the assurance that their efforts would be rewarded, and would not be thwarted, either by government, corporate entities or other citizens. The problem is, these guarantees have never been equally applied to all citizens. Do you actually believe that African Americans have had the same opportunities, either political, social or economic, that your families have had? One of the major sources of the disparity in progress between majorities and minorities in this society has been the calculated efforts by said majority to keep the wealth in its own hands. You can crow all you want about government interference and intervention, and the so-called problems you see in the cultural outlook of said minorities, but when you repress a group long enough, that group soon learns to have lesser expectations. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy that comes from the manner in which this country's societal mores, and economic system, has been set up. You can't expect people to pull themselves up from their bootstraps when they don't have any bootstraps and are kept from acquiring the means to get them. When they want to buy bootstraps, you won't hire them. When they wish to make them, you erect legal and economic barriers to keep them from obtaining the raw materials. When they ask you to give them some, you condemn them for being dependent and having a victim mentality. And when they get desperate and try to steal them, you put them in jail and confiscate their assets through forfeiture.

You are 100% right. Some of the very "bootstrap pullers" on this thread have openly stated that they do not WANT diversity. Well, if you are against diversity and you are doing the hiring for your corporation, are you going to hire a minority? I don't think so.

I am in HR. I have seen that discrimination is VERY much alive and well even now in 2008. It's very hard to proove. It' happens for number of reasons...race, age, ethnicity, even if an applicant is too heavy or less attracive. But the employer will never SAY that the reason they are not hiring a candidate is any of the above, not publicly anyway. Trust me, I've heard them say it in the "safe" environment of their co-workers in HR. So don't delude yourself in to thinking anyone can do anything with out barriers in the "great" ol' USA.

[JERSEY MAN]

Originally Posted by EEEPNJ

Yet it is too bad that you made $2 too much because then your daughter could have qualified for a hand out to pay for her college education... if you are at $150,000 combined income PAY FOR YOUR DAUGHTERS COLLEGE and stop whining....

I am paying full tuiton now for 4 kids in college because I break my arse by working 2 jobs and my wife has worked also her whole life. Where have you been, 150K in NJ with 4 kids going to college is peanuts. Oh, you must be one of those getting a handout. Sorry for working hard.

[EEEPNJ]

Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN

I am paying full tuiton now for 4 kids in college because I break my arse by working 2 jobs and my wife has worked also her whole life. Where have you been, 150K in NJ with 4 kids going to college is peanuts. Oh, you must be one of those getting a handout. Sorry for working hard.

Not getting a single handout here, and I work damn hard, have since I was 15 years old. I think the only "handout" I ever got was disability after the birth of my child, but then again, I did pay in to part of that... but I digress....

I just find it amusing how you think so little of those who DO get handouts and are so quick to say how the government should not be giving them.... YET are upset that you couldn't get one to pay for your daughter's education. Do you really think I believe that if you had made $99,999 instead of $100,001 you would have said "No, please, I'm not going to accept this because it is wrong... I really believe that I should pay for this based on the hard work ethic I was raised with and live by?" No you would have TAKEN it and it would have been OK... but if you don't benefit then it is wrong? THAT is my point.

I, on the other hand, prefer private schools to public. So, I pay for it (so much for me being one of the ones getting 'handouts') AND I oppose vouchers...becuase while I have my preferences, I beleive that each child in the US has the RIGHT to a public education (I'd like to say a good one, but that's not always the case) and I don't want $ taken from that to be given to ME becuase I made a choice to send my children to private school. So I try to live by my ideals.

It's funny

[JERSEY MAN]

I was using that as an example of how the govt. provides. No I wouldn't have taken free money to send my kid to a school that has many underachievers. I would rather die poor and be happy to say I was fortunate enuf to send my kids to good schools. I was just using figures supplied by the govt. My one son is going to graduate Princeton this year and daddy is paying 45K and I'm damn proud of it. I'm saying what mike was saying, go out and work your tail off and most likely you will be rewarded.

[EEEPNJ]

But there are ALWAYS cut offs in life... government and else where. I am in the benefits field and some of my clients have employee contribution rates based on income. Sometimes people get a raise and then they pay a little more for benefits - does it suck - yeah - but who was it that said fair is for 7 yr olds? Life's not fair. But that doesn't mean that we have to be so presumptuous to assume that just because WE made it others can just by doing what we've done. Success has a lot to do with hard work, no question. But it also has a fair amount to do with LUCK.

Based on Mike's posts the government should not assist anyone. Let's take into account that most people that apply for bankruptcy do so because of illness and/or medical expenses... many of these people may have been hard workers who became ill. Again, in the benefits field, I see this happen more often than I'd like to. Someone who works their tail to the bone and then gets sick and it's over like that... within no time they go from "making it" to being unable to provide basics for themselves and their family. I do not think that we, as Americans, should beleive we should say "screw them..." I do think programs that will assist them are to the benefit of ALL in society - and I really do not have a problem in the world with my tax dollars going in that direction.