Minorities will be the majority by 2042 (Union, Rio Grande: student loans, construction, schools)

[wileynj]

Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN

I'm reading these posts and I disagree(to a certain extent). I,we, grew in in a tenement in Jersey City **** poor. My father left for work at 5 in the morning and sometimes if not most times didn't get home until 10 at night. My mother guarded prisoners in the dirty filthy county jail. They broke there arse and we weren't given anything or expected anything. We had neighbors from all backgrounds. MOST of the ones that worked hard were rewarded with the small perks of life. Maybe a used car and maybe you could get out of the tenement and finally move uptown to a two family like on the Jeffersons. This victim mentality day after day is sickening. NO ONE gave me anything because I AM WHITE. My brother married a black woman and I have nieces and nephews that are mixed. We go to family gatherings and some of the blacks call each other lazy. And yes we have many lazy whites and more whites on welfare due to the fact of the population numbers. If anything that I see is the govt. jobs have quotas for certain ethnic groups. Post Office, police, fire and so on. I'm in my 50's and I have worked since I was about 9 years old. Corner store,delivering papers, mopping floors,delivering pizza, loading trucks and so on. I have worked 2 jobs most of my adult life and my wife works full time and we had 4 kids and are still struggling. The opportunities are there if you strive and strive harder. If you didn't get it yet get up at 4 in the morning and strive even harder. Sorry if I OFFENDED anyone I was just giving another view. Jersey Man

Too true JM! Same here... worked since I was 14 (girls had it better off )..and haven't stopped since. If a black man can make it all the way to the office of president... what's to stop others from just making a living!

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN

My mother guarded prisoners in the dirty filthy county jail.

DUDE! I don't know if your mom is still alive, but she HAD to have known my dad, who worked at the jail too (worked up to Dep. Warden - actually he was one step above, but that's a whole convoluted story). He was there from 1960-1983.

ETA - my uncle worked there too.

[spotlight114]

Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN

I'm reading these posts and I disagree(to a certain extent). I,we, grew up in a tenement in Jersey City **** poor. My father left for work at 5 in the morning and sometimes if not most times didn't get home until 10 at night. My mother guarded prisoners in the dirty filthy county jail. They broke there arse and we weren't given anything or expected anything. We had neighbors from all backgrounds. MOST of the ones that worked hard were rewarded with the small perks of life. Maybe a used car and maybe you could get out of the tenement and finally move uptown to a two family like on the Jeffersons. This victim mentality day after day is sickening. NO ONE gave me anything because I AM WHITE. My brother married a black woman and I have nieces and nephews that are mixed. We go to family gatherings and some of the blacks call each other lazy. And yes we have many lazy whites and more whites on welfare due to the fact of the population numbers. If anything that I see is the govt. jobs have quotas for certain ethnic groups. Post Office, police, fire and so on. I'm in my 50's and I have worked since I was about 9 years old. Corner store,delivering papers, mopping floors,delivering pizza, loading trucks and so on. I have worked 2 jobs most of my adult life and my wife works full time and we had 4 kids and are still struggling. The opportunities are there if you strive and strive harder. If you didn't get it yet get up at 4 in the morning the next day and strive even harder. Sorry if I OFFENDED anyone I was just giving another view. Jersey Man

I was not implying that anyone gave you anything b/c you are white, i was simply saying that you probably weren't denied anything for being white either...and that is not something a lot of minorities can say.

I wanted to add that i am in no way advocating for hand outs on the basis of being black or being part of any other minority group...i think people are done with the victim mentality...i just acknowledge that race continues to be a barrier

[culater88]

Human beings are human beings and only bigots are concerned about which race is the majority or minority.

Why not just treat everyone with respect regardless of their race, gender, religion or lifestyle.

[wileynj]

Originally Posted by culater88

Human beings are human beings and only bigots are concerned about which race is the majority or minority.

Why not just treat everyone with respect regardless of their race, gender, religion or lifestyle.

Amen to that!

[solibs]

Originally Posted by Sunil's Dad

I am not saying that there is some cabal of rich white powerful people who are bent upon maintaining white supremacy. You can split hairs to this extent though: There is a cabal of rich people who are bent upon maintaining RICH supremacy, and that cabal, at least in America, is 99.9 percent white. And what I was speaking about in my earlier post is the systematic way in which access to wealth was specifically kept (and is denied even now) from black people; inadequate education, being barred from trade unions, mortgage and geographical redlining, and other methods, both subtle and nonsubtle. In terms of wealth, blacks are way behind whites. And a rich black person still is considered less of a human being than a poor white one.

If there's any group that's over represented in the upper tiers of income in this country it's asians. Which would seem to suggest, following your line of reasoning, that white people aren't out to protect white people so much as they are to hold the black man down. I think that's a simplistic narrative that isn't reflected well in the modern, "world of white people."

Your initial post said that there was a "calculated effort by the majority (read: whites) to keep the wealth in its own hands." Again, 90% of white people really don't own much wealth . . . and most of the white people who would try to keep wealth from black people aren't smart enough to make such calculations.

I know that blacks were starting on perhaps the lowest rung in american society but that doesn't erase the fact that the black middle-class has been growing faster than the white middle-class since the 60's. I'll be the first to agree that it's still not fast enough but then, I don't think a country like ours should treat any of our people the way that we do.

I understand the history well, I spelled out a few of the ways that blacks were denied access to wealth and education but these days I really don't think it's about being black. It's about being poor. I've worked a lot of blue collar jobs over the years, in NJ, in PA and the Carolinas and I've seen a lot of people get hired and fired. Most of the people who get hired come in on a referral. There's a strong correlation to race there - white people tend to have white family members and friends, same for black people . . . and I can tell you without a doubt that when some white, toothless high school drop-out hillbillies came in for a job in NC and were up against a black high school grad with experience (one example I witnessed) there was no question as to who got the job.

I'm not saying I never had a racist boss (maybe 15-20% of them) but, in the days of HR departments even in the smallest of companies, those people don't hold much sway anymore and when they try to, unless they're well connected, they get fired.

It's easy to look around and see other people who look like they've "made it" and wonder what you're doing wrong. I do it all the time. But I don't try to blame the white people around me for it because I know most of them are in the same boat as me and I know that 95% of the people who do have it easy were given their start-up money or money & daddy paid a full ride at Penn, where they met all the future venture capitalists they needed to know.

As far as a poor white life mattering more than a rich black life . . . that's hyperbole. A white woman in her early 30's (always looked like trouble) in my neighborhood was stabbed to death in the middle of the street. There wasn't even enough info in the police blotter to figure out the reason why. Meanwhile a working class black women is sexually assaulted on her way home from work (same neighborhood) and it's front page news. We had 380 murders in this city last year. You're only newsworthy if you're seen as a respectable citizen. That is to say, if the neighborhood cops don't recognize you from prior arrests when they pull the sheet back then you're probably going to make it to the paper.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I'm just saying that in my experience poverty, and the issues associated with it, are structural. And trying to explain away black poverty in 2008 as a product of current racism (as opposed to a waning product of historical racism) doesn't pass the sniff test.

[Busch Boy]

Originally Posted by EEEPNJ

Another point to be made is that the term African American is also absurd because you could have black or darker skin and not be a descendant of Africa at all. OR you could be a descendant of Africa and have white skin.

Like I said, it's all foolish, people are people and I wish that in the year 2008 we would have STOPPED obsessing about race already. The younger generation, for the most part, is a lot better. I know my nieces and nephews are blown away that inter-racial marriage was once illegal. (Not blown away in a good way.... they think it's absurd, which it was.)

I agree with your post 100%. The good thing about it is that most of the ignorant people we having walking around today will be dead in 2042. I think the younger generation will handle it much better.

And I so agree with the comments about Hispanics not being a race. I'm "Hispanic" and half of my family looks whiter than people classified as "White".

[spotlight114]

Originally Posted by Busch Boy

I agree with your post 100%. The good thing about it is that most of the ignorant people we having walking around today will be dead in 2042. I think the younger generation will handle it much better.

And I so agree with the comments about Hispanics not being a race. I'm "Hispanic" and half of my family looks whiter than people classified as "White".

Im 24 years old married to man who is part puerto rican and it took this forum for me to really learn that hispanic is the culture...sometimes its just ignorance and there needs to be people willing to teach others...so thanks EEEPNJ...i learn something everyday

[Fox Terrier]

Just curious then how you would define "promote the general welfare"?

Originally Posted by mike0421

Tahiti,

My reason for focus on these programs (and not Iraq or other wars) is because the Constitution and our founding fathers, who authored the document, never allowed for these programs, and in fact, the antecedents of the migration away from Ol England was to escape similar tyranny (remember taxation without representation). This is to say, our republic was founded on the principles of limited government.

Article I of the Constitution:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

In other words, 'common defence' was intended to be a federal function. Not Medicare, not SS, not the ERA, Health and Human Services, etc. They were not even intended to be state functions. Ultimately, a state can amend its constitution to provide for these programs, however Tahiti, welfare, section 8, all these goodies, are not functions of our federal government. Accordingly, I have no quibble with expenditures towards maintaining our soverignity. Congress had to approve the most recent foray into Iraq, and 77 out of 100 senators did approve these articles, based on a track record of over 15 years (at the time) was deemed appropriate. The left wing in this country (the punditry through the press hard copy and electronic) subsequently turned this misstep onto Bush, and his administration, and not where it should have been, through lack of collaborative planning between federal intelligence agencies. Whether or not this was the right or wrong war is a separate issue: my primary contention is that irrespective of how you feel about this particular incursion, the founding fathers had in mind the provision for the common defence, not the well-being or provision of federal subsidies to a single mother with 4 children in Detroit. That's just not the way our system of government was set up.

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by Fox Terrier

Just curious then how you would define "promote the general welfare"?

As a synonym for "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness". In other words, the Constitution allowed merely for the opportunity to pursue happiness, or promote, promulgate, or encourage the the pursuit of happiness, through various actions i.e. providing goods, services, etc, at a profit. Profit is not ensured, however, under the system provided to us by the founding fathers, the opportunity indeed exists. In contrast, there are no guarantees to your prosperity, i.e. the right to welfare, the right to free health care, housing, food, etc.