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Old 06-16-2014, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Randolph, NJ
4,073 posts, read 7,417,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshflakes757 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean. Most states in the northeast have similar population densities, minus the jughandles. It's overall just complete stupidity that they still exist. Especially on route 22 where it's easily forgotten where the jughandles are in relation to all the shopping malls. And out in on 206 in Flemington? It's so rural that there is no reason why one can't flip a turn in the middle of an intersection.
Yes, and you'll find jughandles in PA, MD, CT, MA, and I've seen them in NH and NY.

Roads like 22, 46, and 10 would snarl with traffic even worse if you had people making lefts. And if you don't know where to turn on 22, I'm not really wanting to be behind someone in the left lane peering over and crawling as they try to get their bearings.

I assume you mean 202 in Flemington? Sometimes, I think it's useful on roads where people are going pretty fast and lefts could be at more risk of being broad-sided. Again, jughandles allow for longer cycles of green so you may be inconvenienced at the one particular turn, but your overall trip usually benefits.
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Old 06-16-2014, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfFull View Post
Yes, and you'll find jughandles in PA, MD, CT, MA, and I've seen them in NH and NY.

Roads like 22, 46, and 10 would snarl with traffic even worse if you had people making lefts. And if you don't know where to turn on 22, I'm not really wanting to be behind someone in the left lane peering over and crawling as they try to get their bearings.

I assume you mean 202 in Flemington? Sometimes, I think it's useful on roads where people are going pretty fast and lefts could be at more risk of being broad-sided. Again, jughandles allow for longer cycles of green so you may be inconvenienced at the one particular turn, but your overall trip usually benefits.
Yes -- jughandles exist in other states. The issue is WHY NJ is so stubborn does not for allow left turns in any intersection. It just seems off.
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Old 06-16-2014, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Randolph, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshflakes757 View Post
Yes -- jughandles exist in other states. The issue is WHY NJ is so stubborn does not for allow left turns in any intersection. It just seems off.
Again, this is a gross overstatement. You can go across vast stretches of many counties with few jughandles. You know the Basking Ridge area, so surely you know that as you drive north on 202, you can make left turns at most intersections all the way north into Bergen (no, not at intersections like Rt 10, but that would slow down an already congested intersection).

Perhaps the question is why other states haven't embraced them more.
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Old 06-16-2014, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfFull View Post
Again, this is a gross overstatement. You can go across vast stretches of many counties with few jughandles. You know the Basking Ridge area, so surely you know that as you drive north on 202, you can make left turns at most intersections all the way north into Bergen (no, not at intersections like Rt 10, but that would slow down an already congested intersection).

Perhaps the question is why other states haven't embraced them more.
No -- I think the question is why NJ can't pave and build left hand turn lanes on the highways that could use it instead of people driving around looking for the next jughandle.

You make it seem like NJ is super progressive in doing it this way
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Randolph, NJ
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I get it - you don't like the no-left rules at some intersections. I've given you some reasons why they make sense (improved traffic flow, safety), but you reject those and want to pave turn lanes (even where space doesn't exist for them). I'm not sure there's anything that can be presented to you at this point. Cheers.


Hey, why does CA have those lights regulating cars entering highways instead of just living with yield signs?
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,099 posts, read 2,897,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfFull View Post
I get it - you don't like the no-left rules at some intersections. I've given you some reasons why they make sense (improved traffic flow, safety), but you reject those and want to pave turn lanes (even where space doesn't exist for them). I'm not sure there's anything that can be presented to you at this point. Cheers.


Hey, why does CA have those lights regulating cars entering highways instead of just living with yield signs?
Your claims as to why it makes sense is opinion, not fact. I'm asking why NJ hasn't given it any thought?

The yield lights going onto the highways are to improve the flow of cars entering the highways during rush hour(s.) They are not always in use, but tend to work.

Last edited by Freshflakes757; 06-16-2014 at 03:22 PM..
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Randolph, NJ
4,073 posts, read 7,417,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshflakes757 View Post
Your claims as to why it makes sense it opinion, not fact. I'm asking why NJ hasn't given it any thought?

The yield lights going onto the highways are to improve the flow of cars entering the highways during rush hour(s.) They are not always in use, but tend to work.

I've read studies supporting my "opinion". Sorry, you can google it if you're really that interested.

I guess I can consider your claim about the CA lights to be an opinion also.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Jersey City
6,489 posts, read 16,166,684 times
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The Federal Highway Administration published a study in 2012 to estimate the performance of New Jersey Jughandle Intersections (NJJI). They profiled three different "types" of jughandles and estimated the intersection delays, capacity, and travel time compared to "conventional" surface intersections (i.e., left turn intersections).

Traffic Performance of Three Typical Designs of New Jersey Jughandle Intersections - FHWA-HRT-07-032

The findings were that jughandles have intersection delays that are 15-40 percent (depending on the jughandle type) lower than conventional intersections during near-saturated (congested) conditions. The delay savings falls off during free-flow conditions. Jughandle intersections have capacity 20-40 percent greater than conventional intersections.

Jughandles are not wildly popular, but I think part of the reason is that the use of them is inconsistent. One of the challenges associated with jughandles is that in many cases they require the use of more land adjacent to the intersection (land which is more valuable for development). They're more expensive to build than a left turn pocket, so they're only done when/where deemed necessary. And where they are developed, sometimes they're placed before the cross-street, sometimes after. That's usually due to conditions specific to the intersection in question (land owners on one side or the other are easier or more difficult to deal with, there are geotechnical issues on one side or the other, road geometries would have to be X or Y on one side or the other, traffic volumes/patterns on the cross street, etc.). These inconsistencies make people have to really pay attention because not every jughandle is the same, and not every intersection has a jughandle at all. I think the lack of uniformity turns people off to them.

^To be clear, the first paragraphs were fact, the last paragraph is opinion.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:21 PM
 
Location: NNJ
9,578 posts, read 5,379,709 times
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Jersey barrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The design of the Jersey barrier was specifically intended to minimize damage in incidental accidents and reduce the likelihood of a car crossing into oncoming lanes in the event of a collision. "

I figure that if there is such a problem of cars crossing into oncoming lanes that it lead to the development and naming of the "Jersey Barrier", then it leads to reason that you shouldn't allow it legally as well. LOL.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:57 PM
 
884 posts, read 1,265,943 times
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I've never understood the jughandle hate...at least out here in western Morris County there are very few of them, and plenty of roads have left turns at the intersection or left-only lanes. And the handful of jughandles I do encounter are pretty useful.

Rt 202 in the Flemington area actually has numerous left turns from the center of the highway...something you don't see too frequently on other roads. 206 would actually benefit from more jughanldes....so many times I've been stuck in a line of traffic because one guy had to make a left.
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