Lakewood NJ , Jewish community (home, college, cost)

[RABBI JOE]

I hope you don't mind if I split apart your original piece!

Originally Posted by zombiemommie

Rabbi, Hasidim are a sect within Ultra Orthodoxy, correct ?

Parallel actually. However, while both groups adhere to the Shulchan Aruch, Hassidim superimpose costumes and ritualism based on Jewish Mysticism (which is authentic belief according to the code of law) over certain aspects of Jewish Law.

They follow a particular Grand Reb - I've heard some cynical Orthodox refer to them almost as a cult (?). Is that correct ?

Yes. Nearly every Hassidic group does have a spiritual leader called a Rebbi. Or in the press: "Grand Rabbi". This role is usually heredity. There are a few that have actually "split" because no successor was named by a previous Rebbi. There are two or three who continue to thrive with out any supreme Rebbi. Yes - I've heard them referred to as a "cult", although no ill meaning is intended - Rather the context figurative.

I think most people think anyone in a black suit and hat is Hasidic.

You are correct, yet there are many differances.

I guess to compare to Christian religion - Hasidic would be the equivalent of a particular ultra fundamentalist incredibly insular splinter Christian denomination.

To an extent - yes. However, less drastically, and less dramatically. Hassidim (Plural usage) are accepted for whom they are and nearly always completed respected for their extra practices. This however, was certainly not the case when the "style" of religion became widespread during the early 1700's. In layman's term, they perhaps can be most compared to the "Amish" sect of Judaism!

Hasidm don't usually "mix" with the Orthodox/Ultra Orthodox very much, though, right ? I thought they don't usually cross paths so much and its not like one group routinely marries another (or am I wrong...)

This really depends upon the circumstances. If they live in close proximity, such as in Brooklyn, NY, they usually do interact very commonly. There is much common ground, and friendships are usually quite common. They surely do not seek to avoid one another. They educate their children according to their way of understanding, so untill late teens, early twenties, unless related, there is usually less frequent cause for interaction.

Hassidim tend to marry very young, (15-18 norm! even in America!), while Ultra-Orthodox wait sometimes even until mid - upper twenties - so marriage is usually not the norm, one with the other - however - there is nothing wrong with it.

I am under the impression that the Hasidim originated in the 1600's (or thereabouts) in Eastern Europe (Romania ?).

Below is a link with some factual information regarding the history of Hassidim, and the movement's founder: Rabbi Israel Baal Shem Tov.
Baal Shem Tov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Carbro]

Originally Posted by AnthonyB

It seems you feel one is "better' than another rather than just different because they don't stand out as much and other people are more comfortable around them.

Do you think Southern Baptists should become Episcopalian to conform?
Or that Catholic priests should drop the collar, or nuns drop the habit, or monks drop the robes so that they can "fit in" better and people won't know who they are?
Or that Greek or Russian Orthodox should switch to Methodist so they won't stand out too much by celebrating Christmas on a different day?

You misread the intention behind my post. There was, earlier in the thread a confusing non-distinction drawn between Hassidim and non-Hassidic Orthodox. I was just trying to clarify the difference.

If you knew me, you would know that I think our society is too conformist. I welcome diversity and self expression, and that's why I left the white-bread suburbs (by which I mean the specific area where I grew up) to live in NYC.

[ksmama007]

Originally Posted by MPBsr

Boy, this sure does sound like someone thinks they're all high and mighty.

BTW...I take offense to you using the word "goyim". Makes you sound very condescending and racist.

I'm not even from Lakewood so pardon my intrusion. I have (for certain reasons) come to learn a LOT about this town lately for work purposes, which is actually how I stumbled upon this thread. Through researching.

I am in agreement with you regarding taking offense to the term 'goyim'. I am not Jewish, but am Christian, was raised as such. Somehow, with all of the things I have learned about other religions, I never knew what this term meant until recently. And I was stunned. That anyone who is not Jewish is considered 'an animal'? Not even human? Wow. I will refrain from saying things I shouldn't.

Also, Rabbi Joe - I realize you are trying to give information but you should never consider Wikipedia a reliable source. It is a user contributed site that any 'Joe off the street' can edit and change information at any time. Therefore, it is not a 'factual' site, as you put it.

[Marcian]

Originally Posted by ksmama007

I am in agreement with you regarding taking offense to the term 'goyim'. I am not Jewish, but am Christian, was raised as such. Somehow, with all of the things I have learned about other religions, I never knew what this term meant until recently. And I was stunned. That anyone who is not Jewish is considered 'an animal'? Not even human? Wow. I will refrain from saying things I shouldn't.

It is frequently claimed that the term "Goy" (pl. goyim or goyyim) means "animal" and is therefore a derogatory term. However, this is not at all true. "Goy" is Hebrew for nation. Colloquially, however, non-Jewish nations -- other nations -- are called "goyim" and a member of these nations is called a "goy". Any gentile is therefore called a "goy". It is not a derogatory term, but merely a descriptive term.

1. It is important to note that the idea of respect for others, and the values of a pluralistic society, form an old, integral part of Judaism and Jewish tradition. The rabbis taught that all men are equal in the eyes of G-d -- if they do the will of G-d: the Talmud says "Whether Jew or gentile, man or woman, rich or poor -- according to a man's deeds does G-d's presence rest on him."

2. Mormon call any non-Mormon a gentile; Jews are therefore gentiles to Mormons...

3. Just as some gentiles use "Jew" as a contemptuous synonym for driving too shrewd and sly a bargain ("He tried to Jew the price down," is about as odious an idiom as I know), so some Jews use goy in a pejorative sense. Relentless persecution of Jews, century after century, in nation after nation, left a legacy of bitter sayings...

[RABBI JOE]

Originally Posted by ksmama007

I'm not even from Lakewood so pardon my intrusion. I have (for certain reasons) come to learn a LOT about this town lately for work purposes, which is actually how I stumbled upon this thread. Through researching.

I am in agreement with you regarding taking offense to the term 'goyim'. I am not Jewish, but am Christian, was raised as such. Somehow, with all of the things I have learned about other religions, I never knew what this term meant until recently. And I was stunned. That anyone who is not Jewish is considered 'an animal'? Not even human? Wow. I will refrain from saying things I shouldn't.

Also, Rabbi Joe - I realize you are trying to give information but you should never consider Wikipedia a reliable source. It is a user contributed site that any 'Joe off the street' can edit and change information at any time. Therefore, it is not a 'factual' site, as you put it.

To the extent that you are correct, the information is within realm of correct - and nothing detracting the facts are posted - however - if you prefer to find more information that you deem accurate, you may speak to any Rabbi you so choose - and his name does not need to be Joe - however he shold not be a goy!

As for th eword "Goy"... most Rabbi's educate their flocks to limit the use to internal relations - and surely has no proper place in other then religious context communications.

[Lepke]

In Israel "ultra Orthodox" Jews of all types are called "Haredi or Charedi".
If a Jew wares the black uniform, be they Hasidim or just Yashivish they are Haredi.

Haredi (חֲרֵדִי) is derived from charada (fear, anxiety), which could be interpreted as "one who trembles in awe of God"

[gradgirl]

Hello, everybody. I am an Orthodox Jewish woman living in Lakewood and am currently in graduate school for social work. I stumbled on this website while doing research for a policy report. (Which is actually due tomorrow, but it'll happen somehow.)
I have to say that I've had very mixed emotions as I read through the posts on this thread. Having grown up in Lakewood all my life, I myself have seen how the town has changed over the years. I've had to struggle with my own feelings of adjustment as the once quiet and small town I knew became crowded, city-like and congested. I can only imagine how it must feel to someone growing up here from a different faith or culture. To feel overtaken and ousted by a different culture or people must feel terrible. (And this is not because I am going for social work! I can really sympathize in some small way.) It also pained me to read of people's experiences in being ignored or dealt with in an apathetic or rude way by the Orthodox Jewish residents of Lakewood. In the same vein, I felt real appreciation towards the posters who tried to understand, explain, or judge us favorably. I don't know if I have the power to apologize for my people, (I know many of you out there will accept none of that!), but I can just tell you that part of our education has always been to respect every human being. I personally love people and am in a class where I am the only religious Jewish woman. I am very friendly with all of my classmates, my closest friend being a non Jew. (We've actually texted and emailed each other countless times today... till I got caught up here.)
It is true that we live by certain religious beliefs, as it is true that our religion means more to us than anything else. But at the crux of that very same religion is the fundamental value and belief of appreciating and respecting all people, regardless of their race, culture or religion. That doesn't mean that we are looking to assimilate, we are very happy with our religious lifestyle and find it to be a meaningful and beautiful way of life. But anyone looking down at, or acting in any way rude to, any human being, is simply wrong and not representative of our religion or education. I do believe that there are a lot of misconceptions and assumptions out there about the Orthodox Jewish people as a whole, in addition to some very incorrect preconceived notions. I am not blaming anyone or labeling anyone; in some ways I can understand you and why you might have come to these conclusions. I only ask that you go to a reliable, authentic source to sincerely inquire about us as a people and a religion before you draw conclusions. I was very happy to note that a common thread that run through these posts (no pun...) was that most people who have had serious contact with Orthodox Jews, whether as neighors, coworkers or friends, have found them to be everything I was brought up to be. Kind, considerate, warm and helpful. I invite anyone who has any questions about my religion to ask me and I will be more than happy to share what I know with you. Until then, be well and happy. =)

[MPBsr]

Very nicely said.

Unfort, there are good and bad in all types of religion and people.

[RABBI JOE]

Originally Posted by gradgirl

Hello, everybody. I am an Orthodox Jewish woman living in Lakewood and am currently in graduate school for social work. I stumbled on this website while doing research for a policy report. (Which is actually due tomorrow, but it'll happen somehow.)

Are you truly orthodox? I was under the impression that Orthodox woman are not supposed to be so friendly with the general public - and I supposed to play up the trade of modesty to the utmost extent possible. In the time of the Holy Temple - your husband would have you drink the Sotah waters for being so sociable. I hope you're not married.

I have to say that I've had very mixed emotions as I read through the posts on this thread. Having grown up in Lakewood all my life, I myself have seen how the town has changed over the years. I've had to struggle with my own feelings of adjustment as the once quiet and small town I knew became crowded, city-like and congested. I can only imagine how it must feel to someone growing up here from a different faith or culture. To feel overtaken and ousted by a different culture or people must feel terrible. (And this is not because I am going for social work! I can really sympathize in some small way.) It also pained me to read of people's experiences in being ignored or dealt with in an apathetic or rude way by the Orthodox Jewish residents of Lakewood

.
It is a terrible attribute to go ahead and lend credence to the unknown about every last thing posted without knowing the true facts. Certainly you're not one who guards your tongue. At the very least I would assume you are a informer who does not guard their tongue.

In the same vein, I felt real appreciation towards the posters who tried to understand, explain, or judge us favorably. I don't know if I have the power to apologize for my people, (I know many of you out there will accept none of that!),

it would be a helpful suggestion for you to contact your local rabbi to find out exactly what your place vis-à-vis the world population is, and your part in playing a Jewish diplomat.

but I can just tell you that part of our education has always been to respect every human being.

an Orthodox Jewish woman has absolutely no authority at all, to proclaim or distinguished Jewish law. Are you truly orthodox?

I personally love people and am in a class where I am the only religious Jewish woman. I am very friendly with all of my classmates, my closest friend being a non Jew. (We've actually texted and emailed each other countless times today... till I got caught up here.)

Tell me if you are so happy with your Jewish religion why are you so happy to be amongst the non-Jews? Stick to your own kind? Or are you having difficulty fitting in?

It is true that we live by certain religious beliefs, as it is true that our religion means more to us than anything else. But at the crux of that very same religion is the fundamental value and belief of appreciating and respecting all people, regardless of their race, culture or religion. That doesn't mean that we are looking to assimilate, we are very happy with our religious lifestyle and find it to be a meaningful and beautiful way of life. But anyone looking down at, or acting in any way rude to, any human being, is simply wrong and not representative of our religion or education. I do believe that there are a lot of misconceptions and assumptions out there about the Orthodox Jewish people as a whole, in addition to some very incorrect preconceived notions. I am not blaming anyone or labeling anyone; in some ways I can understand you and why you might have come to these conclusions.

Certainly, you are entitled to your own views and opinions however, if you are married, you should certainly discuss them before posting with your husband, and if you are not married you should discussing either with your father older brother uncle or grandpa.

I only ask that you go to a reliable, authentic source to sincerely inquire about us as a people and a religion before you draw conclusions.

it's interesting to note that you would suggest such a thing after writing such a long post regarding our religion. Do You honestly believe a single word that you have posted here? You sound very hypocritical? An Orthodox Jewish woman is not a reliable source nor spokesperson for the Jewish religion!

I was very happy to note that a common thread that run through these posts (no pun...) was that most people who have had serious contact with Orthodox Jews, whether as neighors, coworkers or friends, have found them to be everything I was brought up to be. Kind, considerate, warm and helpful.

yes it's funny that you need to come here to feel good about such things - how about would as soon - that as you yourself stated - that you feel so comfortable and happy around people that are not the same religion - it does make sense that you would garner such satisfaction from all the posts here. My rabbi every Saturday makes me feel good to be part of the Jewish religion.

I invite anyone who has any questions about my religion to ask me and I will be more than happy to share what I know with you. Until then, be well and happy. =)

again, and Orthodox Jewish woman is a completely unreliable source of any part of the Jewish code of law philosophy or understanding.

Besides, you yourself said that anybody was interested in information should find a reliable source - strange!

But then again, if you truly are an Orthodox Jewish woman - especially one from Lakewood - you would know the truth to Everything I've typed before.

Shame on you! Complete lack of Tznius!

[fischfan13]

What a nice post by this young lady.
Too bad there are some here who question her, or why she said what she said.

Quote:
I personally love people and am in a class where I am the only religious Jewish woman. I am very friendly with all of my classmates, my closest friend being a non Jew. (We've actually texted and emailed each other countless times today... till I got caught up here.)

Is this unreal?
This young lady has a non-Jewish friend and this so-called "Rabbi" Joe condemns her for having friends that are not her faith.
What ignorance.