People who left NJ...and never looked back (Union, Hoboken: low crime, employment)

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by mike0421

This post reminds me of something I've claimed on the "General US" forum and read, when I see a thread that is along the lines of "Which state is the best" which, generally speaking, are the first words of a 'post' war. And they are all quite frivilous. That's why I've always drawn the distinction of a)cultural and living experiences vs b) visiting, observation of natural landscape, etc. You can very easily make informed opinions on b), but not nearly so much a), unless you've lived in all 50 states. Since I know no one who has been blessed to do that, it would be virtually impossible to form an opinion on what is superior. Most people don't live any further than 50 miles outside of the town they were born in their life, and this statistic is even more pronounced in the northeast. Therefore NMyTree's post here is right on. Our opinions on NJ or any other state that we were born and raised in are going to be highly swayed by our upbringings, and how happy or unhappy we were. Cost of living is an unfortunate reality here, as well, and I think that's a big reason for negative backlash by people in this forum, because they feel like they've been displaced or dislocated from a former life they were otherwise happy in. There is resentment there, but it is a consequence of living in one of the most desirable areas in the country. I am one of those victims. A lot of the animous is directed at government, taxes, and perceived waste. Those who feel that is part of the 'cost of doing business' mostly will choose to stay, and speak positively about their homeland. Those who won't or can't afford it will leave, and that memory of being disenfranchised will be directed at NJ, the people, the culture, etc. And that's a real shame.

sometimes I want to choke you Mike , then you post something like this. spot on.

[NMyTree]

Well said, Mike.

Good elaboration.

[cyntmac]

Agreed. At least as far as -there is no best state. It is about what place is best for you at the point you are at in life.

[Steve_TN]

Originally Posted by BrianH1970

You're not at all far from where the Bonnaroo Music Festival takes place. We went the second and third years that they held that thing (2003 and 2004). You must've experienced some severe culture shock. I know just driving through that state it seemed like a whole different world from New Jersey.

Yes, it was HUGE culture shock. I had to learn how to speak Southern....LOL. It was a good kind of shock though and very refreshing and just what I needed at that point and time in my life.

[Steve_TN]

Originally Posted by openheads

Yikes!!!!!!
I, for one, am also overjoyed you moved. That sort of mind frame should be below the Mason-Dixon line.

When you grow up and then slowly see the Arabs move in and turn your once beautiful neighborhood into a ghetto, it is only natural to become a bit prejudiced. Anyone would feel the same way. You have a very old-fashioned and incorrect view of the Metro Nashville area, but that isn't my problem.

[Diane Giam]

Originally Posted by Steve_TN

When you grow up and then slowly see the Arabs move in and turn your once beautiful neighborhood into a ghetto, it is only natural to become a bit prejudiced. Anyone would feel the same way. You have a very old-fashioned and incorrect view of the Metro Nashville area, but that isn't my problem.

Steve, He sure does. They think this is a little Cowboy town. Nashville is amazing, its country, yet has all the Amenities of NYC, Ballet, Theater, Symphony, museums, and non stop music of every kind.
Murfreesboro where Steve lives has grown so much in the 2 1/2 years I lived here. Good Shopping, plus its a college town of one of the largest universities in the state. Its where my daughter attends.
TN has has an interstate system that takes you all over at 70mph in no time at all.
Where that Music Festival is , is the boomies.

Diane G

[weisgarber1]

Originally Posted by Diane Giam

Steve, He sure does. They think this is a little Cowboy town. Nashville is amazing, its country,

Diane G

Nashville is amazing.....as a little, "big city wannabe!"

[BrianH1970]

Originally Posted by mike0421

Cost of living is an unfortunate reality here, as well, and I think that's a big reason for negative backlash by people in this forum, because they feel like they've been displaced or dislocated from a former life they were otherwise happy in. There is resentment there, but it is a consequence of living in one of the most desirable areas in the country. I am one of those victims. A lot of the animous is directed at government, taxes, and perceived waste. Those who feel that is part of the 'cost of doing business' mostly will choose to stay, and speak positively about their homeland. Those who won't or can't afford it will leave, and that memory of being disenfranchised will be directed at NJ, the people, the culture, etc. And that's a real shame.

In New Jersey's case there simply should not have to be any consequence whatsoever. Last I looked New Jersey was the fourth most expensive state in the union. Ideally you'd like to say, "Yeah, fourth most expensive state but at least you can live a respectable life style, nothing extravagant but nothing dingy either", having it all become relative. That's not the case in New Jersey and it's not because of proximity to New York. Massive amounts of political corruption, massive amounts of state workers on the payroll, the NJEA having the state in a virtual head lock have New Jersey in a fiscal choke hold. That's why I would loooooove to see Chris Christie make some sort of a bid for governor. Regardless of what Quinnipiac has to say, he's the best chance of taking down Corzine and at least starting to right the ship. God help the state if Corzine wins another term the way Quinnipiac suggests.

A guy my wife used to work with had to take his family and leave. One final property tax increase had done him in, so he high tailed it down to Charlotte. This wasn't someone looking for a change of scenery, but a move made simply out of survival. When you upgrade in New Jersey, it's slightly better than a lateral move but with a lot more money involved. When you downgrade in New Jersey, you downgrade. And when you're forced into it the way he and his family would have been, it's time to leave.

If you're like me and look to start over, don't even bother. At that point it becomes too overwhelming.

There is no reason that so many families could be one reassessment away from having to leave their town or their state. According to a recent article, there are numerous families in Toms River who may be facing that very situation next year. That should not be.

All that aside, I'll still maintain my high opinion of the state simply out of bias (political leanings and dealings notwithstanding). That doesn't mean I don't love where I'm living now, but I loved everything else about New Jersey. The people, the culture, the atmosphere, the places, everything. I'm certainly not bitter at the state itself. Well...maybe I am at some of you bozos who insist on re-electing the same corrupt politicians over and over again. But not the state. When you're on your way out saying, "Man I wish we could've stayed", you don't focus your anger on the state, but you shake your fist or wave a single finger at Trenton.

[cyntmac]

There is also corruption elsewhere but things have gotten out of hand and this is not something that will change with one election. People are naturally angry at this point- you can't expect anything else. Several other states have very similar problems and are losing population as well. Our neighbor states in the northeast. It is for exactly the same reasons.
It is a waste of time to come on here and play armchair psychologist, dr phill, etc. and then act like you have some kind of "insider" knowledge. Go to any diner in the northeast and you will hear similar conversations about these issues.

[BrianH1970]

Originally Posted by cyntmac

There is also corruption elsewhere but things have gotten out of hand and this is not something that will change with one election.

Tell that to some of the Obama-philes.

What's going on in New Jersey isn't rocket science. I dug up an article dated Oct of 07, but the point is pretty clear:

New Jerseyans are fleeing state faster - Breaking News From New Jersey - NJ.com

Residents are fleeing New Jersey at three times the rate they were just five years ago, a trend that is already doing real damage to the state's economy and budget coffers, a new Rutgers University report shows.

The exodus is so bad, the study says, it could lead to an overall drop in the state's population as quickly as next year. Last year alone, the loss of people cost the state economy about $10 billion in income, and about $680 million in state budget revenue.

In their study, Seneca and Hughes reviewed Census and Internal Revenue Service data between 2002 and 2006. They found the gap between the number of people leaving the state and new arrivals has more than tripled, to 72,547. In 2002, the gap was 23,739.

Had the nation's economy been in better condition, who knows how big the number for 2008 could have been.

And to those economists who aren't sure as to why there was an exodus, stating the possibility that people are also more mobile these days, I'd love to see a poll of those who left and why they left. I'd bet anything that the overwhelming majority would put the blame squarely on the property tax/cost of living burden.