Unbelievable!! (car, kids, drive)

[NJ Chutzpah]

Originally Posted by SweepTheLeg

I really hope you're being sarcastic. This is clearly a parental issue.

Well okay obviously he already had some violent tendencies that should have been curbed, but violence in mass media just fuels it even more, and gave him ideas he otherwise would not have

[NJ Chutzpah]

Originally Posted by hrjersey

The gun made it easy, but who knows what other methods this boy may have used if the gun weren't available. The anger and rage were there and if it is true that the child made his feelings known then the parent has a lot more responsibility here.

As a Special Ed teacher, I have been shocked at the threats and rage I've heard come from the mouths of 8, 9 & 10 year olds. I'm also shocked at the parents lack of concern. I've heard an 8 year old who stayed up all night watching horror films come in and for weeks following say he wants "to be like Michael Myers".

Very sad...

These other methods would have been learned from mass media

It really is not easy to devised horrific ways of killing somebody

the seed must be planted first

[hrjersey]

Originally Posted by FlyersFan

All children need parents to be parents and set boundaries....they're lost without them......too man parents today are shirking unpleasant parental responsibilities to be their childs friend rather than their parent. My daughter is a 3rd grade teacher and has heard threats from a particular child with behavior problems and his parents seem to be of the attitude that his "challenging" behavior is no different than any other child....he just happens to the one caught acting badly and the others get away with it. Anyone can be a friend to a child....to be a good, responsible parent can be a tough, unappreciated road at times.

My point exactly. I don't blame TV but it definitely has a role in shaping our youth. Spend a couple of weeks in a classroom and you begin to see this more clearly. I know exactly the problem your daughter is facing. I have been there on multiple occasions. I've gone as far as to have children sent to the hospital for evaluation but if the parents don't follow up it usually ends with the child being given a clearance to return to school.

[SweepTheLeg]

Originally Posted by NJ Chutzpah

Well okay obviously he already had some violent tendencies that should have been curbed, but violence in mass media just fuels it even more, and gave him ideas he otherwise would not have

As he is 11 years old, the only way he would have access to violence in the mass media is if he wasn't parented better.

[SweepTheLeg]

Originally Posted by FlyersFan

If it was locked up with the intention not to allow access and an 11 year old figured out how to access it how well could it have been "locked" up ?

If the key was simply hidden or not hidden very well, you never know.

Perhaps the locker was to prevent the 4 and 8 year olds getting access, but the 11 year old was entrusted.

[GiantRutgersfan]

guns dont kill people, people kill people.


im not saying that this guy is father of the year or something, but this kid is 11 years old. he's not a little kid who doesnt know what a gun does. who's to say that the father hasnt taught him how to use guns properly? If this kid was in the boy scouts he would be shooting. you want to ban that too?

blame it on the 11 year old and no one else....

[Jerseyt719]

I agree that people kill people, but the parents DO have a responsibility in this.

I don't think it's violence in the media that does this. That's just another thing to blame these issues on.

It's lack of discipline and parenting in the home that breeds kids like this.

[Kracer]

Tragedy!
In retrospect many things surely contributed to this killing, one of them was a gun.

Doing a 'lessons learned" session on a brief news article can only breed speculation but that's what we do to assemble our convictions. There are some obvious solutions that should have been applied beforehand. A secured and disabled firearm would have been paramount.

Something has changed in our society over the years that causes these unbelievable human disasters. The presence of a gun is an obvious factor, but if you excluded guns the problem would still be there. And there is a problem! To blame firearm access alone is like assigning the cause of death of a terminal cancer patient on pneumonia. Sure pneumonia killed the patient but it was the cancer that lead to the death. In this respect no one ever dies from cancer. Should our focus be to prevent the pneumonia and forget about cancer research?

I just pulled out my old circa 1960 Boy Scout manual and counted 5 ads for rifles and shotguns from Mossberg, Remington, Winchester, Savage and Marlin all major firearm manufacturers. Additionally there were 3 ads for air rifles and BB guns with several gun options as prizes for selling various items. There were even a couple of ads for axes. This was all marketed to 11 year old and up Boy Scouts and their parents, read that as fathers, for the most part. The Boy Scouts were not known for their murderous ways.
What changed?

Children had unabated access to firearms. You could go to Kliens or Sears dept store and buy any gun you wanted if you were over 18. The world was flooded with firearms. Today in NJ you need to be fingerprinted, release your medical records in the face of the latest HIPPA privacy laws, scrutinized by the FBI and have character references the police actually check. Redo all the above just to get a permit to touch a pistol during a potential purchase. In the presence of all this What has changed? Firearms have not changed so that is a constant in this equation.
What has changed?
Does that change only result in heinous killing with firearms or will it manifest itself in other destructive ways as well as more killings and devaluation of life.
We better get to the bottom of the problem for the sake of preserving a stable society. Locking up firearms would be a good start but so would educating students in safe firearm handling. Such programs do exist and are available to schools. Let's see, we have fire prevention, CPR/AED courses, programs for drug use and driving. Why not firearms safety if firearms are so prevalent in our society?

What will your kid do when he goes to a friends house and the friend pulls out a gun to show it off?
If you haven’t had this discussion with your child you are hereby deemed irresponsible and part of the problem!

[SweepTheLeg]

We also have to understand that this was in rural Western PA. Things are different out there.

[Jerseyt719]

Yes they sure are different out there. They give the kids days off for hunting season. It's a part of their culture.

I think the laws we have in NJ just keep the honest people honest. That's it.

Kracer is right. Teaching respect for weapons and safety is a must even if there are none in your own household. It's really common sense but maybe something that some people don't think about because they don't have them.
Talking to kids about all dangers is important whether we think it will be an issue or not.