What Is Your Opinion Of Abbott Districts (Newark, Jersey City: school districts, maintenance)

[jerseyj]

Originally Posted by ccnj

I'm all for Abbott money going to programs and materials that will honestly help kids. However, when superintendents take that money and use it on frivolous things, then it really makes no sense for us to be shelling out state money for these districts. In Newark there were reports of luxary car purchases, jukeboxes for schools, ect. Long Branch, another Abbott district, rebuilt almost all of their schools, are putting cameras in all the classrooms and the superintendent makes a ridiculous amount of money. Good spending? I think not. How are any of those things helping children?

You can find audits of the Abbott Districts expeditures. Here is an example of the Trenton school audit-

http://www.state.nj.us/education/finance/kw/Trenton.pdf

If you have the intestinal fortitude to slog through 61 pages of text and 100's of pages of purchase orders you will find some interesting stuff ranging from-
pens that cost $24.95 each
binders- $159.20 each
Sea World tickets- $137.23 (PO submitted by a teacher who was attending a symposium in Orlando).
Stainless steel hopper- $3,295.00 (no reason for the purchase or who the purchase was for)
$1,263,403.00 for Puerto Rican Community Day Care in which no supporting documentation was provided.

This is a SMALL example of some of the questionable purchases made by ONE of our Abbott Districts. We have 31 Abbott districts.

[topster7]

zhelder, I am in complete and utter awe at your honesty and raw integrity. I disagree with some of your assumptions, such as towns being forced to "diversify" by the brute hammer of the state under the Mt. Laurel Decision. I would be your staunchest ally though, if the case could be made that a prospective renter or buyer was chased away just over mere skin color. Your "solutions" still seem to favor allowing the force of the State to reign supreme.

It is obvious what a good and decent person you are. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Teachers like you are what enobles this nation by the sense of fair play you embue our children with. Sounds to me like you teach, rather than indoctrinate. And I say that as a conservative fully appreciative of how daunting your task is as an Abbott Teacher. (I capitalized Teacher on purpose).

Count me as one that wholeheartedly supports the teacher that truly stays on subject and eschews injecting personal politics or view. I have a teacher in my own family. I can state categorically that what you posted was honest, raw, and courageous.

[zhelder]

Originally Posted by topster7

zhelder, I am in complete and utter awe at your honesty and raw integrity. I disagree with some of your assumptions, such as towns being forced to "diversify" by the brute hammer of the state under the Mt. Laurel Decision. I would be your staunchest ally though, if the case could be made that a prospective renter or buyer was chased away just over mere skin color. Your "solutions" still seem to favor allowing the force of the State to reign supreme.

It is obvious what a good and decent person you are. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Teachers like you are what enobles this nation by the sense of fair play you embue our children with. Sounds to me like you teach, rather than indoctrinate. And I say that as a conservative fully appreciative of how daunting your task is as an Abbott Teacher. (I capitalized Teacher on purpose).

Count me as one that wholeheartedly supports the teacher that truly stays on subject and eschews injecting personal politics or view. I have a teacher in my own family. I can state categorically that what you posted was honest, raw, and courageous.

Thank you for the kind words. And, yes, I try my best to teach, rather than indoctrinate, as you so eloquently put it.

In my younger days, I was completely gung ho on going into administration. But I have no desire to do it anymore, primarily because I will not allow myself to be indoctrinated. We need people who are willing to rage against the machine. I learned that I'm the rage, not the machine.

We need to teach children HOW to think, not WHAT to think. Despite my strong personal political views (pretty far to the left), I try my best not to impose my beliefs on my students. Occasionally I will give an opinion about a topic, but I always present the reasoning behind my opinion and respect differing views of others, even though I may strongly disagree with them.

As far as the Mt. Laurel decisions, my personal opinion is that without the decisions, the diversity will never happen in NJ. Sometimes the government needs to take action on certain issues. IMHO, this is one of those issues. Perhaps one day the diversity of our towns, both in terms of race and wealth, will increase to the point where the Mt. Laurel decisions can be overturned. We're far away from that day.

Anyway, thanks again for the kind words. Being an Abbott District teacher is a tough job, but somebody has to do it!

[topster7]

zhelder, I grew up lower middle class in East Orange. From about age 7, my Ma and Dad had to scuttle to pay the bills. Dad had been a Union truck driver before his heart attack; Ma had always been a housewife. In 1959, after Dad's heart attack, things took a turn for us.

I left at age 18 in 1970 for a military career; though at the time I expected to come back to my job at New Jersey Bell Telephone. I say all this to set up what I'll tell you further.

What I found in the Marine Corps was unlimited opportunity if you had the pluck. I had that in spades being a Jersey boy. But at some point they had to be sure you had the aptitude; the "right stuff", to be acceped for advanced training.

Because of teachers like you, I breezed through the toughest exams the Marines could throw at me. Your earlier cohorts enabled me to escape repeating the ever lasting treadmill of being a cog in some factory job. You gave me a chance, though it was up to me to seize it.

You teachers have always done this with equanimity and aplomb. This current Liberal pose does your proud profession grave diservice. Because truth be told, we have such great teachers and the tragedy lies with parents; not the educators that want to do so much. Not a day goes by I don't hear about some teacher spending money out of pocket for supplies for the kids.

Teachers in the worst places are dear and sweet. Idealist's. Motivated by the highest standards. Jeez. I spent 23 years in the Marine Corps. And STILL remember that special teacher that talked me out of dropping out. We are so similar in so many ways. I can't help but admire such dedication. Such pure, well meaning conviction.

All I can say is I couldn't do it. God Bless them one and all.

[AnesthesiaMD]

My mother was an abbott district teacher since before there were abbott districts, so I have nothing against the teachers or even the theory for that matter. My issue is with it's the way it's applied. There is so much waste. Then there is Hoboken, who's residents can certainly afford to pay for their own school system. Jersey city too. With all the big business and luxury condos on the waterfront, you cant tell me that they should get a break while people living 100 miles away have to pay their way. Also, why do the 31 districts get as much money as the 31 wealthiest districts, per pupil? This is a crazy policy. Why dont they get as much as the average district spends. How is it fair that all those lower middle class districts suffer with high property taxes and little state aid, while 31 districts get all the money? It needs to be reformed.

As to the Mt. Laurel decision and diversity, racial diversity will be achieved naturally as more minorities are becoming able to afford to buy homes in those towns. It doesn't need to be mandated by the NJ Supreme court.

As to economic diversity, maybe if you could tell me why it is important in a town, I will be in a better position to judge it. I see the benefit of racial diversity but not economic diversity. If my town only has middle class people in it, I am less likely to have to deal with crime than if we have a large poor population, no? Also, wont my property taxes go even higher than their insanely high levels now if I have to start paying for people in town who cant afford to pay property taxes? It seems like a losing proposition for most of the people in the middle class towns, and what is the benefit of economic diversity in a town?

[zhelder]

Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD

My mother was an abbott district teacher since before there were abbott districts, so I have nothing against the teachers or even the theory for that matter. My issue is with it's the way it's applied. There is so much waste. Then there is Hoboken, who's residents can certainly afford to pay for their own school system. Jersey city too. With all the big business and luxury condos on the waterfront, you cant tell me that they should get a break while people living 100 miles away have to pay their way. Also, why do the 31 districts get as much money as the 31 wealthiest districts, per pupil? This is a crazy policy. Why dont they get as much as the average district spends. How is it fair that all those lower middle class districts suffer with high property taxes and little state aid, while 31 districts get all the money? It needs to be reformed.

As to the Mt. Laurel decision and diversity, racial diversity will be achieved naturally as more minorities are becoming able to afford to buy homes in those towns. It doesn't need to be mandated by the NJ Supreme court.

As to economic diversity, maybe if you could tell me why it is important in a town, I will be in a better position to judge it. I see the benefit of racial diversity but not economic diversity. If my town only has middle class people in it, I am less likely to have to deal with crime than if we have a large poor population, no? Also, wont my property taxes go even higher than their insanely high levels now if I have to start paying for people in town who cant afford to pay property taxes? It seems like a losing proposition for most of the people in the middle class towns, and what is the benefit of economic diversity in a town?

All children should be entitled to the same public educational opportunities, regardless of wealth. They did not create their situations. They should not be penalized for a lack of affluence.

I disagree that racial diversity is going to occur naturally without government intervention. It's been over forty years since the Newark riots. How much racial diversity has been achieved in NJ's towns since the white flight that occurred then? Not much.

As far as the economic diversity, most poor people, are decent, hard-working people who may be in their situation through no fault of their own. These are the people who deserve assistance in living in decent towns. And the wealthy, sheltered children of NJ's suburban enclaves need to learn that there are other kind, decent children out there who don't have everything handed to them on a silver platter.

As far as property taxes, it's simple: base the tax on income rather than property values. This is a much fairer system. Should a senior citizen living on social security really be kicked out of their home because the house they purchased in 1967 for $20,000 is now worth $600,000?

[AnesthesiaMD]

Originally Posted by zhelder

All children should be entitled to the same public educational opportunities, regardless of wealth. They did not create their situations. They should not be penalized for a lack of affluence.

A very nice sentiment. I'm sure we all agree with it, but you are supporting a system that overspends on the REALLY poor kids while completely ignoring the run-of-the-mill poor kids. Perhaps if they spent a little less on the REALLY poor kids, they would have enough money to cover ALL poor kids.

[zhelder]

Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD

A very nice sentiment. I'm sure we all agree with it, but you are supporting a system that overspends on the REALLY poor kids while completely ignoring the run-of-the-mill poor kids. Perhaps if they spent a little less on the REALLY poor kids, they would have enough money to cover ALL poor kids.

On that, we agree.

[AnesthesiaMD]

Originally Posted by zhelder

I disagree that racial diversity is going to occur naturally without government intervention. It's been over forty years since the Newark riots. How much racial diversity has been achieved in NJ's towns since the white flight that occurred then? Not much.

That has more to do with the speed of growth of wealth in minority communities, which is only now starting to be substantial. People tend to buy homes in their own socioeconomic neighborhood. This will and does trump race.

[proudmama]

I understand your issues concerning the government spending for these Abbott Schools. The news reports fail to provide the whole story. Classes are over crowed, you may have 1 teacher with 30 kids in one class, school funding gets cut if the state test scores are not up to par. The teachers hands are tied with dealing with kids as well as parents that are problems.

When i attended school back in the 70's early 80's, when a child was not up to level with the other children, they were pulled out into smaller groups for "resource" learner. That is no longer an option, these children are expected to keep up in class with the other children. I also agree that it is the parents job as well. The bottom line, these kids need the same chance as children in the suburbs.