What Is Your Opinion Of Abbott Districts (West Orange, Montclair: condo, crime rates)

[proudmama]

Originally Posted by theoakman

if the government wants to reform education the right way, they need to completely dismantle the teacher's unions and stop mandating what the curriculum should be at the federal level. Furthermore, they need to allow the parents to choose where their kids go to school rather than forcing them to go to the school that the government says they have to. As long as we allow the teachers unions and the government to have a monopoly on the school system and squeeze out the parents ability to influence the local schools budget and curriculum, you will not see any improvement in the school system of this country.

Can you tell i agree.

[topster7]

Originally Posted by proudmama

That brings me back to Education in the 70's and 80's. The government is so quick to throwing money at these schools, maybe they should rewind and look at what worked when they had the smaller classes/resource rooms. It just seems to me, once "no child left behind" was inacted, children aren't given the time they need to learn. When my child was in grade school, the teacher came straight out and told me that they can't stop to work with children who are struggling, their required to get through the curriculum.

My daugher-in-law teached 4th grade here in California. Her beef with "no child left behind" is that she must pay inordinate amounts of time with struggling students rather than concentrate on the little ones staying up with the cirriculmn. That way it's hoped the aggregate scores for her school pass the levels that have been mandated to show progress and maintain "cash flow", as it were.

Class size is a bit of a red herring. It still redounds to parents imbuing respect for teachers and education itself. Many classrooms are filled with disruptive children, and this hurts the other kids tremendously. Thus, a well meaning program actually keeps teachers from helping kids that display talent and aptitude.

She hit me with another wrinkle I hadn't even considered, as I'm not a teacher. Many school districts are under pressure to decrease the teacher/student ratio. This has resulted in some states suspending competency tests or other permutations of that so as to increase the amount of teachers being hired. In her own school she has colleagues she thinks have no business being in a classroom.

Simply throwing money at the problem is not the solution, though it certainly has it's place. But we've heard this as the solution for over 40 years now. The results speak for themselves. I believe there are large numbers of irresponsible parents at blame here, and that they share the lions part in this. And because of political correctness, the very measures needed to do a correction are ignored on purpose.

We've lost millions of children because of this cowardice.

[MPBsr]

When it comes down to it.

Money doesn't guarantee a quality education.

[njkate]

Originally Posted by MPBsr

Besides being held accountable, why is Hoboken still an Abbott system.

Because once an Abbott, always an Abbott.

My question exactly of late
Hoboken is 1 square mile of mostly trust fund yuppies living in & buying 500K plus condos
I think if memory serves me correct Hoboken had/has 1 low income housing project.

Last year they spent $17,156 per high school pupil
My town Jefferson spent $13,013 per high school child and there is no way Hoboken incurs the transportation costs that Jefferson does...

Abbott districts usually spend more per student then non Abbott yet their scores are usually lower then non Abbott, usually because of parental apathy

Time to revamp this system big time because we are just throwing money out the window.

[proudmama]

Originally Posted by topster7

My daugher-in-law teached 4th grade here in California. Her beef with "no child left behind" is that she must pay inordinate amounts of time with struggling students rather than concentrate on the little ones staying up with the cirriculmn. That way it's hoped the aggregate scores for her school pass the levels that have been mandated to show progress and maintain "cash flow", as it were.

Class size is a bit of a red herring. It still redounds to parents imbuing respect for teachers and education itself. Many classrooms are filled with disruptive children, and this hurts the other kids tremendously. Thus, a well meaning program actually keeps teachers from helping kids that display talent and aptitude.

She hit me with another wrinkle I hadn't even considered, as I'm not a teacher. Many school districts are under pressure to decrease the teacher/student ratio. This has resulted in some states suspending competency tests or other permutations of that so as to increase the amount of teachers being hired. In her own school she has colleagues she thinks have no business being in a classroom.

Simply throwing money at the problem is not the solution, though it certainly has it's place. But we've heard this as the solution for over 40 years now. The results speak for themselves. I believe there are large numbers of irresponsible parents at blame here, and that they share the lions part in this. And because of political correctness, the very measures needed to do a correction are ignored on purpose.

We've lost millions of children because of this cowardice.

To some degree i agree with many of the posts. The one thing everyone should keep in mind, Yes parents have THE MOST IMPORTANT responsibility to work with their children, review what they've learned, read with them, monitor their progress, but at the same time, the educational system is also directing the parents to these "learning systems" like Sylvan and Score to help fill in the gap.

So not only are parents paying taxes with hopes that their children are receiving the education they deserve, but their also being asked to pay extra to fill in the gap where the educational system failed. Don't get me wrong, i've heard horror stories from many teachers about these trifling parents out there that expect teachers to be the sole educator in their childrens lives, but then again, you still have those parents that work even harder with their children to ensure that they do not fall behind because there aren't enough teachers or resource programs to assist those children that need extra help.

And before someone again chime in and say that is a parent responsibility, i agree totally, but a child is in school for 6 hours per day, that child that can not keep up or is not comprehending is not learing. Again 20 years ago, there were resource teachers available for Language & Math. That is no longer an option.

[ira]

Originally Posted by MPBsr

Besides being held accountable, why is Hoboken still an Abbott system.

Because once an Abbott, always an Abbott.

Having lived in Hoboken for almost 10 years, I can tell you that it should remain an Abbott district. About 75% (not sure about exact %) of Hoboken public school students qualify for free or reduced lunch. They are, indeed, poor. Majority of the "rich" parents of Hoboken don't send their kids to Hoboken public schools - they either go to charter schools, private schools or move out of Hoboken.

One thing that should change in Hoboken is parents should be required to submit proof of income before being admitted to Abbott Pre-K.

[AnesthesiaMD]

Originally Posted by ira

Having lived in Hoboken for almost 10 years, I can tell you that it should remain an Abbott district. About 75% (not sure about exact %) of Hoboken public school students qualify for free or reduced lunch. They are, indeed, poor. Majority of the "rich" parents of Hoboken don't send their kids to Hoboken public schools - they either go to charter schools, private schools or move out of Hoboken.

One thing that should change in Hoboken is parents should be required to submit proof of income before being admitted to Abbott Pre-K.

That's not the point of the Abbott districts though. It doesn't matter that only the poor people of Hoboken send their kids to the schools. What DOES matter is that the citizen's of Hoboken can afford to pay for the school system there. The rich people in Englewood, South Orange, Montclair, West Orange all send their kids to private schools, but their property taxes are high because they have to pay for the school system in their town.

[Raven1976]

When is there going to be a system that holds parents accountable for their children???


That is what makes me angry. You have all these horrible parents that don't support their children, don't help with their homework, and just don't care what goes on with their child at school. Then, they expect the teacher to take on the role of parent and teacher. If a lot of parents put in a lot more effort to reinforce the work they do at school then there would be a lot less problems. PARENTS ARE THE FIRST TEACHERS. Too many parents just drop off the kids and school and expect the school to take care of every aspect of their child. This is the problem with a lot of the ABbot programs... it's not always the teachers, it's also all the apathetic parents that live in these poorer areas that contribute to the problem.

[proudmama]

Originally Posted by Raven1976

When is there going to be a system that holds parents accountable for their children???


That is what makes me angry. You have all these horrible parents that don't support their children, don't help with their homework, and just don't care what goes on with their child at school. Then, they expect the teacher to take on the role of parent and teacher. If a lot of parents put in a lot more effort to reinforce the work they do at school then there would be a lot less problems. PARENTS ARE THE FIRST TEACHERS. Too many parents just drop off the kids and school and expect the school to take care of every aspect of their child. This is the problem with a lot of the ABbot programs... it's not always the teachers, it's also all the apathetic parents that live in these poorer areas that contribute to the problem.

Interesting, i wasn't aware that Hoboken was considered a poor area

[ira]

Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD

That's not the point of the Abbott districts though. It doesn't matter that only the poor people of Hoboken send their kids to the schools. What DOES matter is that the citizen's of Hoboken can afford to pay for the school system there. The rich people in Englewood, South Orange, Montclair, West Orange all send their kids to private schools, but their property taxes are high because they have to pay for the school system in their town.

You'd be surprised how high Hoboken's taxes are. We sold our condo in '05 and our taxes were almost $6,000 for a 2-Bedroom apartment.