What Is Your Opinion Of Abbott Districts (Camden, Hoboken: 2009, renting)

[topster7]

I recently became aware of this term and why the New Jersey Supreme Court originally mandated it. For those of you who live in New Jersey and must pay to fund it, what is your opinion on it's fairness and/or efficiency?

[bababua]

The problem with "Abbott" districts are not the actual schools or teacher or even the students for that matter. Its the parents and societal situations that are prevalent in the town. I feel that tax payers should not foot the bill for children whose parents are not doing their jobs at home. The simple truth is all of the Abbott districts are poor and most of the students come from bad situations at home. You can throw money at the problem as much as you want but this does not change the culture at home and on the streets.

[hrjersey]

Originally Posted by bababua

The problem with "Abbott" districts are not the actual schools or teacher or even the students for that matter. Its the parents and societal situations that are prevalent in the town. I feel that tax payers should not foot the bill for children whose parents are not doing their jobs at home. The simple truth is all of the Abbott districts are poor and most of the students come from bad situations at home. You can throw money at the problem as much as you want but this does not change the culture at home and on the streets.

Do you teach in one? It seems that only those of us that actually teach there understand that teachers and administration can not make up for bad parenting - which you understand. I do have to differ though in that we can not walk away from these kids simply because the parents may not be competent. Walking away will just continue the cycle and the problem will just become bigger.

I think that parents need to have a lot more accountability. If a child does not hand in homework then the parent should be made to come in and attend mandatory classes - even if the district has to offer them at odd hours to accommodate work schedules. In fact, I think all parents should have to attend yearly parenting workshops or discussion groups.

I realize that all parents wont be changed but the more I see, the more I believe that many parents can be pushed to do more for their kids then giving them a PSP to shut them up.

One final note, I do work in an Abbott District and we are slowly improving. We are constantly learning and changing to address the challenges in our district. Pre-K programs are making a big difference. What I know is that the majority of the staff that I've met truly want to help and teach these kids. Now, if you ask me where the money is going, it's not in my classroom but we do have a load of new schools, I just don't teach in one.

[jerseyj]

We have been shovelling money into the Abbott districts for decades and they continue to underperform.

Abbott school districts still lag - NJVoices: Star-Ledger Editorial Page

hrjersey- you are so dead on...parents need to be held more accountable.

Obviously, this decades long Abbott Experiment is not working. Time to give it up and find a more effective application for this money.

[MPBsr]

Besides being held accountable, why is Hoboken still an Abbott system.

Because once an Abbott, always an Abbott.

[topster7]

Is there any way you folks can see how much an individual school district recieves from this funding? Seems fair. If "Shadytown" gets 45% of it's operating fund from Abbott funds, for example, will you be able to see this?

Also, given the dire straits the districts must be in so as to gain this designation, are teacher standards more rigid, or is there no discernable difference in ejecting underperforming/incompetent teachers? I mean, as compared to districts with better scholastic achievement.

[bababua]

Originally Posted by hrjersey

Do you teach in one? It seems that only those of us that actually teach there understand that teachers and administration can not make up for bad parenting - which you understand. I do have to differ though in that we can not walk away from these kids simply because the parents may not be competent. Walking away will just continue the cycle and the problem will just become bigger.

I think that parents need to have a lot more accountability. If a child does not hand in homework then the parent should be made to come in and attend mandatory classes - even if the district has to offer them at odd hours to accommodate work schedules. In fact, I think all parents should have to attend yearly parenting workshops or discussion groups.

I realize that all parents wont be changed but the more I see, the more I believe that many parents can be pushed to do more for their kids then giving them a PSP to shut them up.

One final note, I do work in an Abbott District and we are slowly improving. We are constantly learning and changing to address the challenges in our district. Pre-K programs are making a big difference. What I know is that the majority of the staff that I've met truly want to help and teach these kids. Now, if you ask me where the money is going, it's not in my classroom but we do have a load of new schools, I just don't teach in one.

In no way shape or form do I suggest walking away from the kids. That is one method will fail.
I do agree that parents should be held accountable, the problem is a large number of parents in Abbott districts are apathetic. They just dont get it and they just dont care and this reflex on the child work and attitude toward schools.
Another huge problem with Abbott districts is they have a large amount of immigrant students. Most of these students are coming from 3rd world countries, the fact that they have schools,tv,houses and running water allows them to believe that they have made it. So a lot of them see nothing wrong with what their children are doing.
Also of note is that limited enlish proficient students are tested in English after only 1 year in the country.

[jerseyj]

Originally Posted by topster7

Is there any way you folks can see how much an individual school district recieves from this funding? Seems fair. If "Shadytown" gets 45% of it's operating fund from Abbott funds, for example, will you be able to see this?

Also, given the dire straits the districts must be in so as to gain this designation, are teacher standards more rigid, or is there no discernable difference in ejecting underperforming/incompetent teachers? I mean, as compared to districts with better scholastic achievement.

That info is hard to find. What you can find is data on how much the districts spend per year per child. This article explains that the Abbott districts spend between 15K-18K per year per child.

Hoover Institution - Daily Report Archives - Abbott districts need better incentives

Camden (an Abbott district) spends 18K per child per year, Princeton (a non-Abbott but personally wealthy district) spends 11K.
In 2008 NJ Monthly HS Rankings (for what they are worth) out of 316 NJ High Schools-

Camden-316
Princeton-6

[topster7]

I understand this has been in effect since 1990. Is that correct? And just recently on CNN, one education expert stated that Abbott Districts receive substantial discounts in getting wired and online access. Indeed, in many cases, the most affluent and Abbott Districts far exceed internet access found in the "average"" funded school districts.

That struck me as fundamentally unfair to the modest/middle class students.

[doc1]

What Is Your Opinion Of Abbott Districts

Another case legislating by unelected members of the Judicial branch.

Plus lots of money that goes who-knows-where.