Possibly relocating to Camden- where do we live? (Newark, Trenton: 2009, luxury)

[kalim2008]

Originally Posted by Katisu

I considered this as well. I am white; my husband is Korean. I would probably be wearing suits or business casual-type clothing, depending on my job. My husband will probably not be very dressed up, but would probably have a lap-top with him.

I don't think what you have said is out of line. If a mostly poor and violent neighborhood has new people moving in that carry expensive equipment around, they may assume we would be a good target. I'm not so much stereotyping the residents of Camden, but I'm saying the ones that are violent may stereotype us as people with "nice" things. I'm not saying we do, just that they may get that idea.

I don't think race would be the issue (unless there is something we don't know about), but maybe how we present ourselves- clothing, lap-top, purses, etc.

If you HAVE to live in Camden, I would suggest sticking close to the University area. I have no first hand knowledge of Camden, but based on the statistics if you could live somewhere else and commute into the University, that would be the best idea.

As to the real estate market, i would think a lot of stuff there will be very, ummm, low-priced

I once lived in LA, near USC, and the area around that school was reputedly very bad, but I found no problems over there. Used to walk the streets all the time, even at night, and the university grounds itself was very safe (it's not the University of Spoiled Children for nothing). So, it is possible to live in such an area so long as you stick to the safer University area.

One thing, I don't know whether you're kidding, but going around with a laptop in plain view away from the University is just asking for it.

You're from indiana, so maybe it's different (read, hicky, a friend of mine is from that state) over there, but believe me, you do NOT want to mess around with your safety if possible.

[Katisu]

Shy101- that is good to know. I really like hearing from people that have once lived/currently live in Camden.

Kalim2008- he's not just randomly going to be walking around town with a laptop, just to school and back. He'll need it for class. At least we assume he'd need one. It would be in some sort of carrying case. He would like to walk or take public transportation to school if we lived close to campus. If we don't live in Camden, it probably won't be a big issue. But yes, you would probably be safe walking around most of Indiana with a laptop.

[ScranBarre]

I'm going to preface this by saying that I have never been to Camden before so that some of you don't jump down my throat the way you've been slamming poor DailyJournalist for stating HIS opinions of hoping to see Camden revitalized at some point. I may admittedly be far off-base, and if I am just tell me so in a non-nasty manner.

There's "violent crime", and then there is random violent crime. Here in Wilkes-Barre, PA and its inner environs there have already been seven homicides thus far in 2009, and the year just keeps on getting bloodier and bloodier it would seem, which has caused suburbanites to go into a mass panic as the city administration tries to do some "damage control" for their public relations. However, when you look into things a bit more closely you'll see that ALL were drug-related, domestic in nature, or involved two stupid people resolving a conflict in a stupid manner; the person casually walking between Barnes & Noble and a Thai restaurant is not very likely at all to be shot in the face for no inherent reason. Take, for example, last week when a 42-year-old mother was stabbed to death and left to die in the street just two blocks north of my King's College campus by a 27-year-old angry that the victim had misplaced her public assistance card. Sure, it's no picnic to have to drive around people bleeding to death in the streets, but with all of the walking I've done alone around this "Murder Capital of NEPA" at night I have NEVER been the victim of a crime. Ironically the only time I ever was a crime victim was when I was robbed here in the tonier "crime doesn't happen here; stick our heads in the sand" suburbs of all places.

If my career ever does take me to Philadelphia, then I WOULD gladly consider a new loft in and around the Rutgers campus in Camden. Urban renewal has to start at SOME point for Camden. Why not now? How many more years do you want NJ's image to be tainted by the red-headed step-child you affectionately call Camden before you finally try to say something constructive other than "it's a lost cause?" If people ARE willing to move to these new lofts and to invest privately in and around the Rutgers campus, then why fault them for this? Camden CAN come back on a block-by-block basis through gentrification. It is ideally-situated along the PATCO, near a rapidly-growing and increasingly-cost-prohibitive Center City Philadelphia, and along the shores of the Delaware River. It has a very nice aquarium and a great concert venue, along with being home to the headquarters of Campbell's, one of America's oldest and most beloved companies.

I'm not discounting some of the negative experiences some of you have had with the city. However, if all you do is HABITUALLY say "Don't move to Camden," then how will the city EVER recover? Do you all enjoy knowing that so many of your hard-earned tax dollars go to keep Camden afloat annually? Well, if Camden could successfully attract and retain more upper-middle-class whites to more of these lofts in the downtown and/or Rutgers areas, then it would become more self-sufficient, freeing up MORE of your tax dollars to benefit YOU! Was Hoboken always the affluent trend-setting part of North Jersey that is has now become? No. It wasn't easy, but after years of hard work the city was turned from "blah" to "chic." Camden CAN enjoy the same success in 15, 20, or even 30 years if people commit NOW to making it a better place. Yes, sometimes image is everything. Over my three-year tenure on this forum I have successfully rejuvenated the image of Scranton, PA to the point where several people thanked me for being the catalyst that encouraged them to invest in the city and make a difference here. The SAME could happen for Camden. Granted I personally would not live in 90% of the city of Camden, but why discount that remaining 10% if people out there WOULD consider it?

[CaptainNJ]

[quote=ScranBarre;8513582 However, if all you do is HABITUALLY say "Don't move to Camden," then how will the city EVER recover? [/quote]

it would be nice if camden recovered but who cares enough that they would be willing to live in a sewer in the hopes that if other good people move to the sewer it will get better? im not that type of guy and i dont think most people are. maybe what camden needs is a big hurricane and a levy breaking.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

it would be nice if camden recovered but who cares enough that they would be willing to live in a sewer in the hopes that if other good people move to the sewer it will get better? im not that type of guy and i dont think most people are. maybe what camden needs is a big hurricane and a levy breaking.

It's just a vicious cycle though. People from throughout NJ understandably complain that they don't want their hard-earned tax dollars going to subsidize a sinking ship like Camden, but, at the same time, they also try to jeopardize any hopes of renewal it can have without even being cognizant of the fact that they are doing it by trashing its image to EVERY potential newcomer willing to breathe fresh life into it. You can't just drop a nuclear bomb upon Camden and then just call it a done deal.

Wasn't Collingswood itself formerly a dump that has nicely revitalized itself? Granted it is on a much smaller scale than Camden, but I can also think of numerous medium-sized cities in dire straits that have been successful in repositioning themselves for future success (Harrisburg, PA and Bethlehem, PA come to mind). The waterfront, Rutgers campus, Campbell's, lofts, etc. are all bits and pieces of a puzzle that can help to serve as catalysts to entice young professionals priced out of Center City Philadelphia to consider Camden as a close second as an urban living option. I don't know why everyone has to have such a defeatist attitude about Camden. It wasn't long ago that Newark was just as nefarious as Camden, and now Newark even has a few nice neighborhoods.

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

and now Newark even has a few nice neighborhoods.

if somebody recommended moving to newark to me i would punch them right in the face.

i saw some show where they were spotlighting these "pioneers" who would buy dirt cheap places in terrible areas and fix them up. i think they were all artists. it takes a special kind of person to do something like that. i have no doubt those artists will probably end up dead or give up.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

if somebody recommended moving to newark to me i would punch them right in the face.

i saw some show where they were spotlighting these "pioneers" who would buy dirt cheap places in terrible areas and fix them up. i think they were all artists. it takes a special kind of person to do something like that. i have no doubt those artists will probably end up dead or give up.

"Pioneers" are typically (but not exclusively) artists who want an urban lifestyle but aren't affluent enough to afford high rent prices in more established urban neighborhoods, DINKs (dual incomes; no kids) looking for a change of pace from suburbia, or risk-taking gays/lesbians drawn to the historic appeal and charm of the architecture of sketchier areas. If I were personally looking to invest in Camden I would search for an area where a lot of properties were being purchased by artists, DINKs, and gays/lesbians, as gentrification would soon follow as yuppies, heterosexuals, etc. move in, encouraged by the relative successes of the pioneers before them.

I get what many are saying though about "Would YOU want to be the first one to move into Camden just to prove a point?" I admittedly wouldn't. I WOULD gladly consider one of those lofts that our oft-maligned friend DailyJournalist was so kind to post the links to, but I couldn't foresee myself buying one of those bombed-out rowhomes photographed upthread and fixing it up myself. While I'm a good-natured guy, I still realize that some of my neighbors might not take too kindly to someone trying to clean up their "turf."

[Diane Giam]

Originally Posted by Katisu

Awesome. I'll give these areas look.

If we do have to live in Camden for some reason, are there any particular areas to stay away from?

All of it!! For a few years in a row, it won most dangerous city. On the Rutgers campus is good there. Think of the worst slum in Indiana, then multiply it by 50=Camden.

Diane G

[Diane Giam]

Originally Posted by DailyJournalist

You never have anything good to say about NJ. Please do not respond to my posts and I will not respond to yours. I think you would be scared to go to a Chuck E Cheese. A city dweller with common sense will be fine in the Rutgers University area of Camden.

I don't see you living there. Collingswood is hardly Camden. I was afraid to even drive thru Camden on the way to the Aquarium. That at least was safe, but thats right across the river from Philly.

Diane G

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

While I'm a good-natured guy, I still realize that some of my neighbors might not take too kindly to someone trying to clean up their "turf."

yeah, this is a very uphill battle for anyone getting involved. my brother bought a place in spanish harlem and he is hoping to be relatively early in the gentrification process. i think he is going to be disappointed. i also think that he is being irresponsible with regards to his girlfriend and now with an upcoming child.