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I think this makes it worse, the donor is specifically discriminating against people of European decent.
Really? The Basques don't have their own state and are an ethnic minority. That would be a minority AND European. And what about Russians? They are very white but technically come from Asia, so I guess that would make them white Asians, but on the other hand there is something very European-y about them. Being Russian Orthodox would definitely make them a minority, and not Protestant'y at all.
That would leave us with people of British, Irish, Scandinavian, French, German, Hungarian, Czech, Austrian, Polish, Spanish, Italian, Dutch and Swiss decent. OK, throw in the Yugoslavians too, but drop the Turks, they're Muslims.
Of course Catholics are a minority, so we can drop them. As is any kind of Orthodox Christianity, so they are gone too. Jews are out, they are a minority, as are white gay people and the transgendered. Children of single parents have their own scholarships so we don't care about them and the athletically gifted are given a free ride so we can drop them like a hot potato. Gypsy's - so that gets rid of a lot of the Swiss. Seems like we are down to the Brits, the Scandinavians, some of the French, the Germans and Austrians and Dutch. Maybe some Hungarians. Ooops, forgot the Pennsylvania Dutch - they are DEFINITELY a minority, so that drops a few more.
This is fun. How am I doing? At this rate I can get it down to one very rich WASP from the Upper East Side with a lily-white Mayflower backround and impeccable references who doesn't want or need the scholarship and is going to Yale as a legacy anyway. And of course, now that we are down to one person, he is a minority of one, and so would become eligible.
I'm not quite shore that I follow. If the scholarship was specifically for African Americans, then would that be OK with you ?
What about if there were separate scholarships offered independently, one for each conceivable group except for white males ?
What I'm getting at is, are you primarily concerned about the unfairness of the social impact of the scholarship, or are you concerned with the provocative symbolism of its explicitly exclusionary nature ?
Yes to one and yes to two, with one caveat, if it were clear it all came from the same donor the intent (to discriminate against one group) would be transparent and equally offensive. I find discrimination against one group offensive no matter how it is structured. However if there were several different donors setting up different scholarships for several different specific groups I would have no objection.
I honestly don't know what fairness is, I am not kidding. To me describing fairness is like describing a color to a bilnd person. I am concened about the symbolism, plus about what is right. It is not right to discriminate based on race period.
Last edited by shorebaby; 04-16-2009 at 09:28 PM..
Really? The Basques don't have their own state and are an ethnic minority. That would be a minority AND European. And what about Russians? They are very white but technically come from Asia, so I guess that would make them white Asians, but on the other hand there is something very European-y about them. Being Russian Orthodox would definitely make them a minority, and not Protestant'y at all.
That would leave us with people of British, Irish, Scandinavian, French, German, Hungarian, Czech, Austrian, Polish, Spanish, Italian, Dutch and Swiss decent. OK, throw in the Yugoslavians too, but drop the Turks, they're Muslims.
Of course Catholics are a minority, so we can drop them. As is any kind of Orthodox Christianity, so they are gone too. Jews are out, they are a minority, as are white gay people and the transgendered. Children of single parents have their own scholarships so we don't care about them and the athletically gifted are given a free ride so we can drop them like a hot potato. Gypsy's - so that gets rid of a lot of the Swiss. Seems like we are down to the Brits, the Scandinavians, some of the French, the Germans and Austrians and Dutch. Maybe some Hungarians. Ooops, forgot the Pennsylvania Dutch - they are DEFINITELY a minority, so that drops a few more.
This is fun. How am I doing? At this rate I can get it down to one very rich WASP from the Upper East Side with a lily-white Mayflower backround and impeccable references who doesn't want or need the scholarship and is going to Yale as a legacy anyway. And of course, now that we are down to one person, he is a minority of one, and so would become eligible.
Is the utter ridiculousness apparent yet?
Well behaved thread though. Kudos.
Again we are devolving into the silly. As I said before whites are a majority based on their color (or lack there of) you can try all these cute games but if you tell the government you are a minority and gain something by doing that and they find out you are Basque, you will find yourself in a world of trouble. Again you are trying to make the arguement that because each of us is unique we are a minority neat trick but doesn't work in the real world.
And though off topic- There are parts of this country where you may be categorized differently than you are here.
My father has lived in the south for over 30 years. He is married to a rural southerner and believe me they don't consider all Europeans white which may come as a big shock to someone from NJ. This is not the result of a lack of education as much as their strong belief. So you can laugh about whipping out "my statement" but one can't be so secure in the USA.
And though off topic- There are parts of this country where you may be categorized differently than you are here.
My father has lived in the south for over 30 years. He is married to a rural southerner and believe me they don't consider all Europeans white which may come as a big shock to someone from NJ. This is not the result of a lack of education as much as their strong belief. So you can laugh about whipping out "my statement" but one can't be so secure in the USA.
I know that's true in my house I am called an American because I didn't come from Italy. However those calling me an American (not that I am offended in any way) are a generation removed form the old country.
Again we are devolving into the silly. As I said before whites are a majority based on their color (or lack there of) you can try all these cute games but if you tell the government you are a minority and gain something by doing that and they find out you are Basque, you will find yourself in a world of trouble. Again you are trying to make the arguement that because each of us is unique we are a minority neat trick but doesn't work in the real world.
Yes it was silly. But there was a point.
Just because MOST whites happen fall into being the majority of the population (not all, Arabs and Latinos are White and count as minorities) does not mean that wanting to help minorities automatically becomes discrimination against people of a specific color. That is a straw man if ever I saw it.
To be clear - there is NO indication that the grantor did not wish for any scholarships to go to people who happen to have white skin. None. Nada. That is just some chain yanking by the OP. The grantor just wished for more of the money to go towards what he or she saw as the disadvantaged, for whatever reason.
And this has NOTHING to do with the government. This is a personal gift, a very generous one, from a private individual. One we know nothing about.
Yes but my point is that they are not interested in classifying someone based on the fact that they are from Europe. And some of these people are actually educated. This is a long held belief they have.
I witnessed this at a very early age. If I hadn't maybe I would be skeptical too.
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