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Normal wear and tear does not include lingering odors that hinder your ability as a landlord to re-rent.
Um, if the lease permitted smoking (you know, that odor that lingers and hinders your ability to re-rent) then as a landlord you have to suck it up and deal with it. "Curry spice" smell is no more lingering than someone who smokes in the apartment.
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You are expected to return the rental property in the same condition it was given to you (minus "normal wear and tear" which are dings in walls, not 2 inch holes...appliances in basic and good working order, not door of ovens hanging on by one hinge or a fridge full of mold....
OK so far, I agree with you on those examples, clear examples of damage.
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if there were no cockroaches in the rental when you moved in, there should be none when you leave....
This is generally the responsibility of the landlord if the building has a cockroach problem.
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if there were no holes in the carpet and you had a party and let your party goers put their butts out in the carpet....guess who is responsible for that? And it doesn't matter how old the carpet is..the value at time of ruin will be taken into consideration by the judge...and the list goes on.)
Even if you allow pets, the tenant still has a responsibility to maintain the property. There's no unspoken "ok" to let animals scratch doors up, scratch up carpets, chew on doors/cabinets or mark their territory over and over again inside the property where the first 3 feet up from the floor of sheet rock is soaked with cat/dog pee.
No argument on these examples either, clear examples of damage.
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Now THERE'S a NASTY smell that will NOT go away until remediated by removing and replacing the sheetrock. Not a cheap fix either.
Not only is "nasty smell" a matter of opinion, not fact, but it's also not true that you need to strip a place down to the sheetrock to get rid of the smell of curry used in cooking.
Paint the walls (gotta do it anyway) and ceiling, replace the carpet, apply a coat of sealer onto the wooden cabinets, and air the place out. Same as when you have to deal with a smoker.
Um, if the lease permitted smoking (you know, that odor that lingers and hinders your ability to re-rent) then as a landlord you have to suck it up and deal with it. "Curry spice" smell is no more lingering than someone who smokes in the apartment.
OK so far, I agree with you on those examples, clear examples of damage.
This is generally the responsibility of the landlord if the building has a cockroach problem.
No argument on these examples either, clear examples of damage.
Not only is "nasty smell" a matter of opinion, not fact, but it's also not true that you need to strip a place down to the sheetrock to get rid of the smell of curry used in cooking.
Paint the walls (gotta do it anyway) and ceiling, replace the carpet, apply a coat of sealer onto the wooden cabinets, and air the place out. Same as when you have to deal with a smoker.
If I rent out a cockroach free apt and get a cockroach infested apt back at the termination of the lease, it's not my responsibility. Not by a long shot.
In my honest opinion, smoking is a different issue. When I've had to rent a hotel room and I ask for non-smoking...and I walk into the room and it smells like smoke...I go right back down to the front desk and get a different room and will contiune to ask for a room that doesn't reek of smoke. I don't need to spend 5 days in the hotel room to figure out it stinks like smoke and I was promised a non-smoking room.
If you're anti-smoking smell, you don't rent a "smoking-ok" apt. and if you get stuck with one...smoke hiding in the carpet doesn't rear it's ugly head in the middle of the night. You smell it just as strongly as you do curry from the second you step foot into the apt/house/room/whatever.
You have to seal the curry odor up where it lingers. In my past experience that would be walls (yes paint will seal it up....and who said you have to put a fresh coat of paint on the wall or change carpet out inbetween tenants? I know of no such thing?) the carpet and fridge.
Of course what is a "nasty smell" to some is not to others if they are used to it. Noone who isn't used to said "nasty smell" needs to get over it or accept the fact they left one "nasty smell" behind and a landlord left with "nasty smell" shouldn't have to spend out of pocket to remediate it. There is not one good reason to do so, when it comes to curry or any other ethnic "issue" as a landlord, other than to try to maintain some sort of politcal correctness and not hurt any ethnic feelers.
So anyway, if said "nasty smell" is inhibiting the re-renting of a residence, then there's an issue that goes back to the previous residents who caused it.
I don't know why curry does what it does and personally, I like curry. I love Indian foods.
It is what it is and thanks to this thread I may put an "overpowering spice odor left behind" clause in my 2009-2010 leases.
If I rent out a cockroach free apt and get a cockroach infested apt back at the termination of the lease, it's not my responsibility. Not by a long shot.
LOL. Your tenants will be calling the city/town health inspector to report you as a slumlord long before you're faced with a "surprise" roach infestation. Roaches don't just spontaneously appear inside the 4 walls of a rented apartment. They are issues that go beyond any individual unit and if you have a roach infestation in your building, as a responsible landlord you need to deal with it. And any savvy tenant will make you deal with it.
But anyway, we digress, as the crime of cooking with "curry spice" has nothing to do with a cockroach infestation.
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In my honest opinion, smoking is a different issue. When I've had to rent a hotel room and I ask for non-smoking...and I walk into the room and it smells like smoke...I go right back down to the front desk and get a different room and will contiune to ask for a room that doesn't reek of smoke. I don't need to spend 5 days in the hotel room to figure out it stinks like smoke and I was promised a non-smoking room.
If you're anti-smoking smell, you don't rent a "smoking-ok" apt. and if you get stuck with one...smoke hiding in the carpet doesn't rear it's ugly head in the middle of the night. You smell it just as strongly as you do curry from the second you step foot into the apt/house/room/whatever.
First you say smoking is a different issue. Then you say you smell smoke "just as strongly as you do curry." Which is it?
The point is that both smoking and cooking-with-curry are activities that have the potential to leave noticeable odors in an apartment. If you, as a landlord, allow such activities per the terms of the lease, then as a business expense you simply have to deal with removing the remaining odors when the tenant leaves. It's not rocket science.
If you don't want to deal with smoke-related odors, then you address it per the lease (i.e. a no smoking clause, or up-front agreement about costs of smoking-related odor remediation). If you don't want to deal with spicy-cooking-related odors, you can address it per the terms of the lease in the same way. In both cases, you will limit your pool of interested tenants up front, and possibly reduce the amount of rent you can collect. If you choose not to deal with it up front, then you need to deal with it as a business expense when the tenant leaves.
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Of course what is a "nasty smell" to some is not to others if they are used to it. Noone who isn't used to said "nasty smell" needs to get over it or accept the fact they left one "nasty smell" behind and a landlord left with "nasty smell" shouldn't have to spend out of pocket to remediate it. There is not one good reason to do so, when it comes to curry or any other ethnic "issue" as a landlord, other than to try to maintain some sort of politcal correctness and not hurt any ethnic feelers.
It's got nothing to do with ethnic feelings. I'm about as far from a politically-correct discrimination crybaby as you can get. Smoking is the best analogy, and that's got nothing to do with ethnicity. It's all about what the agreement is when you sign a new tenant, and not trying to change the terms of the deal at the end of the deal.
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It is what it is and thanks to this thread I may put an "overpowering spice odor left behind" clause in my 2009-2010 leases.
Problem solved. That way, everyone knows up front what the deal is, and nobody will be put into the position of one party unilaterally deciding he's going to pocket $100 because he doesn't like the smell of the food that was cooked in the apartment.
Does the lease forbid cooking with curry? How about garlic? What about making fried chicken every night?
This again shows you have no clue, like i said if you havent dealt with a tenant who cooks heavy spicy curry, why are you here making those uninformed opinions? Most other cookings do not leave lasting smells, fried cooking will make the kitchen oily, but nothing a bleach wipe wont take care of. Curry is a different story. Stop arguing when you have no idea what you are talking about.
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Originally Posted by Lusitan
Give me a break. If the lease doesn't forbid use of select normal cooking ingredients, the landlord has no right to withhold money because the kitchen smells like curry.
Just like if the lease permits smoking, and then the apartment reeks of smoke, you're not going to be able to charge the tenant to deal with the smoke smell -- that's the price you pay for allowing smoking per the lease.
And the owner is just going to have to chalk this up to a cost of doing business and paint the walls, seal the cabinets, and air the place out if he doesn't like the smell.
this argument is pure lunacy. So if the landlord didnt forbid toddlers/pets from living in the rental, and the kids/pets destroy the walls/doors i cannot charge the tenant for damage? If didnt forbid smoking, and the cig burns damage the floor the tenant is not liable? What planet do you live on.
You dont undersand that the only way to get rid of curry is by repainting the walls and redo the kitchen cabinets, that IS DAMAGE.
I can see how most uninformed people will think it is an outrage to charge for a cooking smell, but once you have personally dealt with cleaning up a curry mess, it's a different story.
Also as i said at the beginning, we dont know what the condition is with this particular example without being there, maybe the landlord is unreasonable and there is only normal cooking smell. The point is your generalization argument is wrong.
Some very good advice and solutions here....do look into this, please!
Shanny
Dude, thanks for commenting, but pls read the thread fully.
We do not have the house anymore. We left on apr 30th and he moved in that same night
also, if he had told us abt the curry smell thing a day earlier, you bet we would have cleaned it to the best of our ability.
You dont undersand that the only way to get rid of curry is by repainting the walls and redo the kitchen cabinets, that IS DAMAGE.
How do you get rid of the smell from a smoker? What's the difference? There is none.
Sure, if the smoker set the house on fire, or created burn marks all over the place, then that is clearly damage that is not based on normal sanctioned activity (smoking).
But if the smoker simply lives in an apartment for years and -- surprise! -- the apartment smells like smoke afterward, that is not "damage" and you cannot charge him for it if you allowed smoking per the terms of the lease. You have to deal with it as a business expense, and you'll have to air the place out, paint, replace the carpet, possible seal the wooden cabinets with a new layer of sealant, or rent to another smoker who doesn't notice the smell.
this argument is pure lunacy. So if the landlord didnt forbid toddlers/pets from living in the rental, and the kids/pets destroy the walls/doors i cannot charge the tenant for damage? If didnt forbid smoking, and the cig burns damage the floor the tenant is not liable? What planet do you live on.
Stop setting up bogus straw-man arguments and knocking them down.
Burn marks = damage from smoking
Smoke smell = normal wear & tear related to smoking
Is that so difficult to comprehend?
(While we're at it, so you don't get confused ...)
"destroy the walls/doors" = damage as well
But cooking with curry, or garlic, or cinammon, or vegetable oil, or whatever ingredient may offends you, is is not "damage".
1) It is damage if the cabinets need to be redone.
2) Smoking smell is many times easier to get rid of than curry and does not require major rework, unless the smoker has been there for years.
3) The tenant did not live in there for years, that you used in the smoker example.
4) It's common sense that you seem to be lacking. This cannot be discussed further since you do not understand heavy spicy curry cooking is different than others, that you keep trying to bundle them together to make your case without actually have any knowledge.
Come to newport someday, i will show you what curry cooking does to the kitchen, and you tell me if the cabinets require to be redone or not.
Smoking smell is many times easier to get rid of than curry and does not require major rework, unless the smoker has been there for years.
And if you rent to a smoker for years? What then? Same problem -- pervasive smoke odor. And you, and a landlord, will need to suck it up and deal with it if smoking was permitted per the terms of the lease.
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