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Old 06-03-2009, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Stirling, NJ (Southern Morris County)
199 posts, read 458,021 times
Reputation: 92

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JG183 View Post
damn, I wanted that loonie Lonegan to win -- it'd be easier to marginalize him

still, Christie can be taken down... after all, he's a hand-picked acolyte of George W. Bush, and Christie has no experience as a chief executive (or as a lawyer!)
And Corzine's experience as a chief executive is exactly what will lift Christie to victory. I hope Corzine has enjoyed his reign, because it's coming to an end in January.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:02 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,284 posts, read 30,935,086 times
Reputation: 5190
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
I remember Florio quite vividly. After campaigning on a no new taxes pledge in 1989, and defeating that stiff, Jim Courter, he ramrodded a 2.8 billion tax increase within two months of taking office (sound familiar? Think of Bill Clinton in 1993. It only took him 3 weeks though). In 1991, you couldn't drive more than 2 miles in NJ without seeing a "Florio Free in 1993" or "Fire Florio, Get DelTufo" bumper sticker. The outrage towards Florio seemed immense. But something funny happens in NJ when you drive towards NYC or Philly. Those types of bumper stickers begin to disappear. Or at least they did back when I still lived in NJ, back in the early 90s. If you are living in a place such as Morris or Ocean County, living a relatively insular life, you really begin to believe that anti-Florio or anti-Corzine sentiment. But in reality, all it takes to nullify that sentiment is to have several busloads of people being driven to the polls in Newark, Camden, Trenton, by very, VERY organized and VERY motivated people, the ones who work behind the scenes for very powerful state special interest groups. Much like the Bolsheviks of 1917, these people are incredibly disciplined, and incredibly organized. Every election day in NJ, they circle the horses, get out their rank and file, and get their officials re-elected.

Getting back to my original point, Whitman won election in 1993 by 1%.(And Bill Clinton nationally was MUCH more unpopular than Obama is now) But Florio had amassed a 10 point lead in most polls prior to the election. The real question is: why did he even have a lead? Were people so forgetful over the past two years (91 and 92) to remember what type of tax increase Florio ran through the legislature with perpetuity? Or is it just because you have a core, unmoveable 45% block of likely voters in the state that will pull the lever for a candidate that resembles a tomato can, as long as it has a "D" in front of it?

You have to give the Democrats credit. They are more disciplined, more focused, more organized, and more united, when it comes to politics. In New Jersey especially. And in this case, you have an opposition candidate that talks about lowering taxes without any substanative plan as how to do it. Lonegan was going to make the voting public take a dose of Castor oil, and that didn't sit well on the Republican side. That's really too bad. Because a good part of the reason NJ (and the country) is in the shape it is today is because politicians from both parties pass popular programs without raising taxes to pay for them. Innately, we are selfish. As a population, we want these programs, and we don't want to pay for them. This leads, eventually, to the devaluation of the currency. And that, if you really split hairs, is why NJ has devolved into the state it has today. Too many people prefer an abundance of government in their lives, in some fashion.
Couple of things:

1) Lots of people believe the "reason" democrats win is because of the inner city vote - is it true that the inner city comes out in droves over suburbanites? I just find this very hard to believe, and I don't have time to research it. And if it is true - good for them, at least they ARE voting for the candidate who they believe protects their interests - after all, isn't that what you're supposed to be doing?

2) Again, I don't know the %, but Lonegan's tax plan would've raised taxes on a whole hell of a lot of TAXPAYERS - so I don't blame them ONE IOTA for not voting for him. I would have never voted for him, but the dude had ba****, I'll give him that.

3) For every voter for votes for D, I'll show 1.5 who always vote for R .
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Weehawken, NJ
2,179 posts, read 5,979,006 times
Reputation: 1150
Quote:
Originally Posted by JG183 View Post
damn, I wanted that loonie Lonegan to win -- it'd be easier to marginalize him

still, Christie can be taken down... after all, he's a hand-picked acolyte of George W. Bush, and Christie has no experience as a chief executive (or as a lawyer!)
...and sometimes inexperience is a good thing.

If the angry bearded clown with the sweater vest wins this election, I will be thoroughly convinced that New Jersey has the dimmest voters on the planet.

This isn't about Bush, Cheney, or ********, as Corzine preached last night, but rather, this is about getting NJ back on track. Creating jobs, ebbing the mass exodus of Jersey residents, curbing a soul crushing income tax, curbing property taxes that are so insane that people in other states think I am kidding when I tell them a lot of homes are approaching/have approached five figures.

Will Christie save NJ? Probably not, but anything has to be better than the 19 ring goat rodeo that's running this state into the ground now. There needs to be a clear understanding that the social issues (gay marriage, abortion, gun control, etc...) need to be put on the back burner this time around, because we are faced with a fiscal crisis.

I always study each candidate (Dem, GOP, others) and cast my vote from there, regardless of political affiliation. This time around my vote seems more important because this plane is hurtling towards the side of the mountain at breakneck speed. I will sadly vote Christie since I am absolutely disgusted with the whole program and he's just the lesser of two dim bulbs.

I literally LOL'd when I heard Bumbling Biden call Jonny Boy "America's Governor". America's Governor? Holy hell, in what nightmare?
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Stirling, NJ (Southern Morris County)
199 posts, read 458,021 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
Couple of things:

1) Lots of people believe the "reason" democrats win is because of the inner city vote - is it true that the inner city comes out in droves over suburbanites? I just find this very hard to believe, and I don't have time to research it. And if it is true - good for them, at least they ARE voting for the candidate who they believe protects their interests - after all, isn't that what you're supposed to be doing?
It has less to do with turnout and more to do with the fact that there are simply more people in urban areas than suburban areas. Just look at the breakdown: about 33% of NJ registered voters are Deomocrats, while just 20% are Republicans.
Quote:
2) Again, I don't know the %, but Lonegan's tax plan would've raised taxes on a whole hell of a lot of TAXPAYERS - so I don't blame them ONE IOTA for not voting for him. I would have never voted for him, but the dude had ba****, I'll give him that.
This is mainly why I voted for Christie. All of the Lonegan supports never acknowledged the fact that Steve himself admitted his flat tax plan would raise taxes on 70% of NJ taxpayers. Is there anything more hypocritical than running a campaign based on conservatism and then admitting that your idiotic plan would raise taxes?
Quote:
3) For every voter for votes for D, I'll show 1.5 who always vote for R .
Really? How could you possibly prove this? I wouldn't make a statement like that, but based on my personal experience, I've come across many more Democrats who would only vote for a Democrat no matter what, on any level, than the other way around.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:21 AM
 
5,969 posts, read 7,415,675 times
Reputation: 1614
Does anyone know if any solid Independents are running?
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Stirling, NJ (Southern Morris County)
199 posts, read 458,021 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownJerseyCity View Post
...and sometimes inexperience is a good thing.

If the angry bearded clown with the sweater vest wins this election, I will be thoroughly convinced that New Jersey has the dimmest voters on the planet.

This isn't about Bush, Cheney, or ********, as Corzine preached last night, but rather, this is about getting NJ back on track. Creating jobs, ebbing the mass exodus of Jersey residents, curbing a soul crushing income tax, curbing property taxes that are so insane that people in other states think I am kidding when I tell them a lot of homes are approaching/have approached five figures.

Will Christie save NJ? Probably not, but anything has to be better than the 19 ring goat rodeo that's running this state into the ground now. There needs to be a clear understanding that the social issues (gay marriage, abortion, gun control, etc...) need to be put on the back burner this time around, because we are faced with a fiscal crisis.

I always study each candidate (Dem, GOP, others) and cast my vote from there, regardless of political affiliation. This time around my vote seems more important because this plane is hurtling towards the side of the mountain at breakneck speed. I will sadly vote Christie since I am absolutely disgusted with the whole program and he's just the lesser of two dim bulbs.

I literally LOL'd when I heard Bumbling Biden call Jonny Boy "America's Governor". America's Governor? Holy hell, in what nightmare?
Same here. Reminds me of exactly why I voted for McCain. Makes you wonder exactly what planet Joe Biden is on.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:27 AM
 
Location: NJ
15,901 posts, read 10,954,801 times
Reputation: 10111
Default "Florio free in 93"

"We'll do fine without Corzine" would be a good mantra this election.

Politics aside, Jon has been a non entity as governor. I mean he has no presence as a leader and seems more of a placholder than the visionary we so desperately need in Nj.

Reading everyone's comments about how and what they judge a candidate against, leads me to believe that inflexible view of selection criteria will ensure business as usual in Trenton.

Case in point I stumbled across an example of how politics/public relations work in Nj. It happens to involve Corzine et al, but the lesson applies to either party should serve to encourage voters to think more critically.

"PRESS RELEASE
GOVERNOR CORZINE SIGNS ETHICS LEGISLATION
By Governors Press... - September 4, 2007 - 3:03pm
Governor Jon S. Corzine,
Release Date: Sep 4 2007
MARLBORO – Governor Jon S. Corzine signed a package of bills today designed to further [SIZE=3]improve the ethical climate in New Jersey by eliminating dual office holding for elected officials[/SIZE] and – for the first time – creating a specific crime to target individuals who use public resources for unauthorized purposes and increase penalties for those found guilty of public corruption. The Governor also signed legislation requiring the Office of Legislative Services to post all legislators’ voting records online"..........


Actual wording in the bill:
"19:3-5.2
LEGISLATIVE HISTORY CHECKLIST
[CENTER][CENTER]Compiled by the NJ State Law Library[/CENTER][/CENTER]
LAWS OF: 2007 CHAPTER: 161
NJSA: 19:3-5.2 (Prohibits [SIZE=4]newly elected [/SIZE]public office holders from simultaneously holding more than one elective office)"


On the surface gov's press release declares the ".....elimination of dual office holding for elected officials....". no mention is made of the fact it only applies to "newly elected" officials and grandfathers in at least 19 dual office holders according to one 2008 news article.

I raise this as one example of how the people of NJ are intentionally mislead by the biased politicians/lawyers and news media representing both mainstream political parties. A career politician who is practiced in manipulating legal nuance and critical sentence structure is not within the bounds of my ethics by approving a press release that clearly misrepresents the proclaimed impact of the bill. Surely in court no misrepresentation or ethical lapse would be declared. However............

How does this legal slight of hand make you feel?
How can you elect anyone, despite their supportive stance on your 'one issue' voting criteria, that behaves in such a manner.

Christie or Corzine, please do not allow either candidate or the news media to get away with hornswaggling the voting and non voting citizens of NJ. If you are eligible to vote and do not, you are actually casting a vote to keep the rest of us subservient to the state instead of the state subservient to the people.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:38 AM
 
256 posts, read 716,916 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
Couple of things:

1) Lots of people believe the "reason" democrats win is because of the inner city vote - is it true that the inner city comes out in droves over suburbanites? I just find this very hard to believe, and I don't have time to research it. And if it is true - good for them, at least they ARE voting for the candidate who they believe protects their interests - after all, isn't that what you're supposed to be doing?

2) Again, I don't know the %, but Lonegan's tax plan would've raised taxes on a whole hell of a lot of TAXPAYERS - so I don't blame them ONE IOTA for not voting for him. I would have never voted for him, but the dude had ba****, I'll give him that.

3) For every voter for votes for D, I'll show 1.5 who always vote for R .
In Newark, Irvington, Paterson, etc its well over 90% voting democrat. In republican strong points, you get maybe 55% or 60% voting republican...
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:41 AM
 
256 posts, read 716,916 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJphillyfan View Post

This is mainly why I voted for Christie. All of the Lonegan supports never acknowledged the fact that Steve himself admitted his flat tax plan would raise taxes on 70% of NJ taxpayers. Is there anything more hypocritical than running a campaign based on conservatism and then admitting that your idiotic plan would raise taxes?
the taxes would be slightly raised initially, but the plan was to drop the tax rate from 2.9% to 2.1% within two years

he couldnt reduce the size of government immediately. it would take some time and he did not want to borrow the money...
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:42 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,284 posts, read 30,935,086 times
Reputation: 5190
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJphillyfan View Post
It has less to do with turnout and more to do with the fact that there are simply more people in urban areas than suburban areas. Just look at the breakdown: about 33% of NJ registered voters are Deomocrats, while just 20% are Republicans.

This is mainly why I voted for Christie. All of the Lonegan supports never acknowledged the fact that Steve himself admitted his flat tax plan would raise taxes on 70% of NJ taxpayers. Is there anything more hypocritical than running a campaign based on conservatism and then admitting that your idiotic plan would raise taxes?

Really? How could you possibly prove this? I wouldn't make a statement like that, but based on my personal experience, I've come across many more Democrats who would only vote for a Democrat no matter what, on any level, than the other way around.

i can't, that's what the wink is for, but i've come across many more republicans who'd only vote rep than the other way around.

if you've got 55% of the voter pop tied to rep and dem, that leaves 45% non affiliated - christie, IF HE RUNS A GOOD CAMPAIGN, can easily get 13% - and this assumes all affiliated voters vote along party lines.
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