Is New Jersey Really that Horrible? (unemployment rate, store, homeless)

[AnesthesiaMD]

Originally Posted by elflord1973

I'm not a constitutional lawyer, and neither are you, so I won't digress further.

On what basis do you conclude that these positions would be worth more in a capitalist free market ? Are the unions not also trying to control not only salaries, but also, benefits and retirement packages ?

I think in a free market, the compensation structure would be very different. It's not easy to say whether it would be more or less in aggregate. There would be more incentives for performance, there would not be overtime systems that are easy to game by design, there would be no tenure. Retirement packages would be scaled down -- governments tend to like to hand out cushy retirement packages, because they can pass a package that makes the unions happy, and leave the consequences to another administration. It would be easier to fire poor performers, and easier to pay outstanding performers more.

I don't believe that urban cops are underpaid. Some teachers are underpaid, some are overpaid.

Perhaps you could educate me regarding the medical profession -- how is it that the government controls doctors salaries ? If you want to open a private practice and operate on a fee-for-service model, what is stopping you ?

I would like to hear your response to my last post, but I will move on to other areas of your post. Now, you are saying that urban cops are not underpaid? I disagree. They may not have the educational requirements of most white collar jobs, but to be good, they need skills and training that many white collar workers may not be able to handle, and for crying out loud, they risk their lives every day to keep us white collar guys safe. The same goes for firemen. How much compensation is that worth? But in a free market, the best cops would make substantially more than they do now, and the doughnut shop guys would make substantially less. Of course the problem with this, and with teachers, and with firemen, etc is that the wealthy neighborhoods will have the best of all of them and the poorer neighborhoods will have the worst.

The unions would lose most of their power, if not eliminated completely, and people would be paid on merit as would their benefits be based on merit. I believe this would shift a lot of resources from the business sector, if for nothing else, successful people would be paying more for services. People will pay whatever they can afford for good education for their kids, for protection for their family against crime and fires, and for the most competent health care professionals they can get.

Look at that. I'm making your whole free market argument for you.

So back to my previous post, do you know understand why most medical professionals dont have the luxury of a free market system? Again, I am not judging it as right or wrong, but dont tell me I'm working under a free market, because I am not.

[elflord1973]

Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD

I would like to hear your response to my last post, but I will move on to other areas of your post. Now, you are saying that urban cops are not underpaid? I disagree. They may not have the educational requirements of most white collar jobs, but to be good, they need skills and training that many white collar workers may not be able to handle, and for crying out loud, they risk their lives every day to keep us white collar guys safe. The same goes for firemen. How much compensation is that worth? But in a free market, the best cops would make substantially more than they do now, and the doughnut shop guys would make substantially less. Of course the problem with this, and with teachers, and with firemen, etc is that the wealthy neighborhoods will have the best of all of them and the poorer neighborhoods will have the worst.

The unions would lose most of their power, if not eliminated completely, and people would be paid on merit as would their benefits be based on merit. I believe this would shift a lot of resources from the business sector, if for nothing else, successful people would be paying more for services. People will pay whatever they can afford for good education for their kids, for protection for their family against crime and fires, and for the most competent health care professionals they can get.

Look at that. I'm making your whole free market argument for you.

So back to my previous post, do you know understand why most medical professionals dont have the luxury of a free market system? Again, I am not judging it as right or wrong, but dont tell me I'm working under a free market, because I am not.

It would take some time to do justice to your previous post -- it is a complex issue. The short answer is what I posted before -- health care is regulated because it doesn't meet assumptions required for a free market to work efficiently. However, I think the government tends to overreach. Forcing the private sector to eat losses for promises the government makes, but refuses to fund, is a good example of this.

I largely agree with your comments above, except that there are market based education reforms that would really help people who live in poorer districts. I think labor costs for police would reduce in aggregate. There would be considerable savings from bringing retirement in parity with the private sector, removing compensation systems that lend themselves to gaming (e.g. overtime), etc. I read that the UAW workers were paid 26/hr or so, but each worker cost more like 78/hr.

[billb7581]

Originally Posted by The Michigan Man

How do you know that removing labor costs wouldn't lower prices?

I ran a gas station while in college. At the retail level the markup is only a cent or two per gallon on regular, five to seven cents on supreme on a competitive highway. It really wouldn't make much of a difference

[openheads]

Originally Posted by billb7581

I ran a gas station while in college. At the retail level the markup is only a cent or two per gallon on regular, five to seven cents on supreme on a competitive highway. It really wouldn't make much of a difference

You're going to ruin his asinine rant. Don't be such a rude Jerseyite.

[The Michigan Man]

Originally Posted by openheads

You're going to ruin his asinine rant. Don't be such a rude Jerseyite.

Yeah, freedom to choose the services you want to purchase. So asinine.

[The Michigan Man]

Originally Posted by billb7581

I ran a gas station while in college. At the retail level the markup is only a cent or two per gallon on regular, five to seven cents on supreme on a competitive highway. It really wouldn't make much of a difference

Sure, but you still had to pay gas attendants

[openheads]

Originally Posted by The Michigan Man

Sure, but you still had to pay gas attendants

You really, really, really seem to have an issue with this socially pressing issue. You should run for a state seat & end the madness that is FULL SERVICE.
New Jersey has one of the cheapest gas prices in the nation. What is there to complain about?

[The Michigan Man]

Originally Posted by openheads

You really, really, really seem to have an issue with this socially pressing issue. You should run for a state seat & end the madness that is FULL SERVICE.
New Jersey has one of the cheapest gas prices in the nation. What is there to complain about?

Yes, due to GAS taxes. Apples and oranges.

Is it the most significant issue in the world? No, but it's still wrong. It's just one more example of a state that is completely over-regulated.

Freedom is always better than the alternative.

[BergenCountyJohnny]

Originally Posted by The Michigan Man

Sure, but you still had to pay gas attendants

I know several people who own gas stations, and they don't pay much for employees who pump gas. They tell me it would not be a noticeable difference, maybe one or two cents a gallon, and they probably wouldn't bother passing that savings along to the customer, even if it meant being a couple cents higher than some competitors.

[Hope002]

Originally Posted by mrgrinch

I live in NC, originally from WI and there are a lot of NJ transplants here (as well as all over the country) Everybody I mean EVERYBODY from there says that its like a communist state with in the US. That taxes are ridiculous, that it is anti-business and hopelessly polluted. One lady told me it has worse roads than Somolia.

Is it true?

It's true if you want to live in la-la land your whole life. There are absolutely wonderful towns in NJ. And there are also not-so-wonderful towns too. But that's just real life. You learn to appreciate the peace and roll w/the punches. However, NJ DOES have high taxes.....some towns are higher than others depending on where you live. Best of luck