Is New Jersey Really that Horrible? (Paterson, Passaic: custom home, construction, private school)

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by KathyA11

And just what would you cut? The schools? Police? Fire? Garbage collection? Recycling? Programs for the elderly? The health department? Paving bad streets? Close the parks, shutter the recreation departments?

Everyone complains about the taxes -- until the programs that they use are curtailed. Then they scream even more loudly. It's NIMBY -- in reverse.

Do you realize that the tax rates here in NJ are set by the county, not the municipality? Do you realize that tax bills here in NJ are split into three parts -- School, County, Municipal? You can cut the Municipal portion to the bone, but if the school portion goes up, because (as is happened in Bayonne) there are hundreds more kids enrolled because the Catholic grammar schools all closed except one -- your bill may go up anyway. And if the County wants more than its usual pound of flesh, then they'll increase that portion of the rate no matter what.

Can you explain this? All towns have different tax rates, and it's up to the town council to put forth the budget (and therefore the increase) for the year.

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by gradstudent77

I wish we could form an organization whose purpose was taking over an entire town and slashing the property taxes. Then, we could live in this metro with Texas-style property taxes. Sometimes, I wish I was the leader of a huge ethnic group, the possibilities for real estate manipulation can't be beat.

you do realize Texas has high property taxes, don't you?

[gradstudent77]

Originally Posted by tahiti

you do realize Texas has high property taxes, don't you?

Really, I wouldn't have thought that was the case. Did I mean to say NC-style tax?

[TheEmissary]

Originally Posted by tahiti

you do realize Texas has high property taxes, don't you?

"High" is relative tahiti! ...if you think that a $6000 tax bill on a 4500 sq ft home on an acre is high. If Texans got NJ tax bills "adjusted" for their homes, they definitely would have "seceded" or cried "Municipal Rape"!

[KathyA11]

Originally Posted by tahiti

Can you explain this? All towns have different tax rates, and it's up to the town council to put forth the budget (and therefore the increase) for the year.

But the municipality doesn't set the tax rate for itself -- that's done by the county for all of the municipalities within its borders.

I can tell you how it's done in Bayonne, since that's where my experience lies. The department directors submit their budgets to the Finance Department, which then assembles the budget (and a fun time that is for all -- not), and the Council will vote yay or nay on it (often after much wrangling and meetings). The adopted budget is then submitted to the county which then strikes the tax rate for each municipality within the county. It will not strike a rate for one municipality without striking it for all -- the rates are struck for all at one time (often municipalities are late submitting their budgets, which accounts for your getting tax bills after the nominal due date).

Do you have county police, a technical school, county college, county welfare? That's funded by the county portion of your tax rate. Look at your tax bill -- it should be split out. Some counties may have special improvement districts, which means you may have more than the usual three parts to the tax rate.

[KathyA11]

Originally Posted by TheEmissary

"High" is relative tahiti! ...if you think that a $6000 tax bill on a 4500 sq ft home on an acre is high.

Try $8100 on a 50 x 100 piece of property with a 4-room single-family home with one bathroom and no garage.

If Texans got NJ tax bills "adjusted" for their homes, they definitely would have "seceded" or cried "Municipal Rape"!

But does Texas support schools on real estate taxes alone (with a small -- and getting smaller -- contribution from the state) as we do here in NJ?

[TheEmissary]

Originally Posted by KathyA11

But the municipality doesn't set the tax rate for itself -- that's done by the county for all of the municipalities within its borders.

I can tell you how it's done in Bayonne, since that's where my experience lies. The department directors submit their budgets to the Finance Department, which then assembles the budget (and a fun time that is for all -- not), and the Council will vote yay or nay on it (often after much wrangling and meetings). The adopted budget is then submitted to the county which then strikes the tax rate for each municipality within the county. It will not strike a rate for one municipality without striking it for all -- the rates are struck for all at one time (often municipalities are late submitting their budgets, which accounts for your getting tax bills after the nominal due date).

Do you have county police, a technical school, county college, county welfare? That's funded by the county portion of your tax rate. Look at your tax bill -- it should be split out. Some counties may have special improvement districts, which means you may have more than the usual three parts to the tax rate.

KathyA11 - I'm not sure that Union County NJ does their budget the way it's done in Passaic County where I used to live. Passaic County towns and cities draft their own budgets. The county has nothing to do with this process. County taxes are calculated by services rendered and then are included in the individual tax bills sent out by each town or city. County Freeholders are the ones responsible for the county budget...they have nothing to do with the way budgets for each municipality are done.

For the record, I live in Union County, NC and receive an individual bill for County and City Taxes. All schools are funded by the county and every town or city in the county receive an equal amount per student. County taxes are usually much higher for most municipalities than their individual rates. Some mostly farm-like towns have a tax rate of 10 cents per assessed 100, while the county tax rate is 57 cents per assessed 100. My city has a tax rate of 55 cents per assessed 100. Since my house is assessed at $200,000 (2800 sq ft on a quarter acre and would probably go for $600,000 in NJ!) so my yearly (and billed that way) taxes are ~$2200 a year. All roads are maintained by the state. I gladly pay more for the services .....police and paid fire dept street cleaners, rather than the county sheriff and volunteer fire depts that the other towns have.

Texans do pay more than I would (for a similar house) in property taxes, but nowhere near what I paid for my dumpy Cape Cod in Paterson!

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by TheEmissary

"High" is relative tahiti! ...if you think that a $6000 tax bill on a 4500 sq ft home on an acre is high. If Texans got NJ tax bills "adjusted" for their homes, they definitely would have "seceded" or cried "Municipal Rape"!

No, I'm talking $17K on a 4500 sq ft house. (and yes, I know someone with this tax bill)

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by TheEmissary

KathyA11 - I'm not sure that Union County NJ does their budget the way it's done in Passaic County where I used to live. Passaic County towns and cities draft their own budgets. The county has nothing to do with this process. County taxes are calculated by services rendered and then are included in the individual tax bills sent out by each town or city. County Freeholders are the ones responsible for the county budget...they have nothing to do with the way budgets for each municipality are done.

For the record, I live in Union County, NC and receive an individual bill for County and City Taxes. All schools are funded by the county and every town or city in the county receive an equal amount per student. County taxes are usually much higher for most municipalities than their individual rates. Some mostly farm-like towns have a tax rate of 10 cents per assessed 100, while the county tax rate is 57 cents per assessed 100. My city has a tax rate of 55 cents per assessed 100. Since my house is assessed at $200,000 (2800 sq ft on a quarter acre and would probably go for $600,000 in NJ!) so my yearly (and billed that way) taxes are ~$2200 a year. All roads are maintained by the state. I gladly pay more for the services .....police and paid fire dept street cleaners, rather than the county sheriff and volunteer fire depts that the other towns have.

Texans do pay more than I would (for a similar house) in property taxes, but nowhere near what I paid for my dumpy Cape Cod in Paterson!

uh...not here. try about $425!

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by KathyA11

But the municipality doesn't set the tax rate for itself -- that's done by the county for all of the municipalities within its borders.

I can tell you how it's done in Bayonne, since that's where my experience lies. The department directors submit their budgets to the Finance Department, which then assembles the budget (and a fun time that is for all -- not), and the Council will vote yay or nay on it (often after much wrangling and meetings). The adopted budget is then submitted to the county which then strikes the tax rate for each municipality within the county. It will not strike a rate for one municipality without striking it for all -- the rates are struck for all at one time (often municipalities are late submitting their budgets, which accounts for your getting tax bills after the nominal due date).

Do you have county police, a technical school, county college, county welfare? That's funded by the county portion of your tax rate. Look at your tax bill -- it should be split out. Some counties may have special improvement districts, which means you may have more than the usual three parts to the tax rate.

I understand the bolded. My school taxes are about 70% of my bill - what I guess I"m not seeing is this - My rate right now is $1.90 per $1000 assessed (this includes everything). Morris County sets this number? Wouldn't Morris County give the County portion and my town then sets the rate based on that and the school/municipal part?