NJ Suburbs and State police need to be cut by 50% (Newark: salary, law)

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by gradstudent77

Libraries make knowledge readily available for those who seek it out. Do you deny that reading makes a person more valuable in the workforce and society, in general? An ancillary, but important role of a library is making the books available to those who could not afford to buy them. Again, I do not have the numbers to point to, but I would bet that the libraries fulfill this role at a relatively small cost.

realistically, libraries are empty of people. when i was a kid, i would get forced to go a few times but other than that, its useless. with the internet, people can have this information at their fingertips anywhere. libraries may have served a purpose in the old days, but they are obsolete today.

that question "Do you deny that reading makes a person more valuable in the workforce and society, in general?" is really too broad to answer properly. i would deny that reading a harry potter book makes someone more valuable. i think literacy makes someone more valuable so they need to have read some books throughout their education.

[gradstudent77]

Originally Posted by mike0421

Captain,

There are many careers out there where one can not affix a price tag to. Law enforcement is one of them.

This is a completely fallacious idea. If I may, I would like to narrow the scope of your argument to police officers in Bergen County, NJ. They routinely make $100k after a few years on the force while facing almost no danger. They have a lot of back-up readily available for those few situations where something serious is going down (brawl outside of a bar, report of burglar, etc.). Of course, there is always a chance that an officer can be shot/stabbed/killed at any moment and of course, they are the ones who must run headfirst into the dangerous situations that most would **** their pants at the thought of.

These facts alone do not demonstrate that they are overpaid, though. What does is the fact that it is widely known that to actually get a job on a bergen county police force, you need to know someone because they are all mobbed with applicants.

Some people have formed their view on police in very different circumstances. A person who used to work for me was a police officer in Texas, and had a ton of stories where she was the only one responding to a domestic disturbance or a fistfight and she knew that back-up was not coming anytime soon. She was also most likely paid peanuts for facing down real danger each shift. This sort of job is so different from what police do in bergen county that it almost shouldn't be called by the same name.

[gradstudent77]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

realistically, libraries are empty of people. when i was a kid, i would get forced to go a few times but other than that, its useless. with the internet, people can have this information at their fingertips anywhere. libraries may have served a purpose in the old days, but they are obsolete today.

that question "Do you deny that reading makes a person more valuable in the workforce and society, in general?" is really too broad to answer properly. i would deny that reading a harry potter book makes someone more valuable. i think literacy makes someone more valuable so they need to have read some books throughout their education.

You are correct that the internet has made a vast amount of information available to people who can access it. Please remember, though, that the library is the only place that some can access the internet. I am far from a liberal in some ways, but it is a fact that the internet is not free and thus there are those who cannot afford it. I disagree that the internet makes libraries obsolete, though. While a lot of books are available for free on the net, we still have a while to go before all the classic stuff is all on there, let alone newer books. In addition, for some, it is a lot easier and more pleasant to actually read a book rather than a screen. Of course, the technology that addresses that is developing quickly.

I am a huge believer in both youth reading and reading, in general. I guess I would just err on the side of making things available even if they are underused. The public libraries that I've used all tended to be pretty full, especially after school got out. That might be a function of me living in the most densely populated part of the state during my formative years, though.

I think public libraries provide a public good (something which benefits the community that the private market will not produce at a satisfactory price point) effectively. If you told me that libraries were the primary culprit responsible for the high prop taxes in this state, then that would be a different story.

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by gradstudent77

This is a completely fallacious idea. If I may, I would like to narrow the scope of your argument to police officers in Bergen County, NJ. They routinely make $100k after a few years on the force while facing almost no danger. They have a lot of back-up readily available for those few situations where something serious is going down (brawl outside of a bar, report of burglar, etc.). Of course, there is always a chance that an officer can be shot/stabbed/killed at any moment and of course, they are the ones who must run headfirst into the dangerous situations that most would **** their pants at the thought of.

These facts alone do not demonstrate that they are overpaid, though. What does is the fact that it is widely known that to actually get a job on a bergen county police force, you need to know someone because they are all mobbed with applicants.

Some people have formed their view on police in very different circumstances. A person who used to work for me was a police officer in Texas, and had a ton of stories where she was the only one responding to a domestic disturbance or a fistfight and she knew that back-up was not coming anytime soon. She was also most likely paid peanuts for facing down real danger each shift. This sort of job is so different from what police do in bergen county that it almost shouldn't be called by the same name.

I'd say this is closer to 15-20 years, not "a few".

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by tahiti

I'd say this is closer to 15-20 years, not "a few".

i dont know towns in bergen country so i chose paramus because i recognize it. anyway, unfortunately, they dont specify years of employment. however, i do see many police earning well over 100k. i saw a couple (in the first couple pages i looked at) with ~50k salaries. too bad they leave out years.

NJ Employee Results

[gradstudent77]

Originally Posted by tahiti

I'd say this is closer to 15-20 years, not "a few".

I'm thinking its more like 3-5. I'll try to find a source. Again, it is not representative of the whole state so it might be different than you are accustomed to.

[BergenCountyJohnny]

I don't know how many cops my town has in total - I can find out though, I know a couple of them. I never see them sitting around doing "nothing", I see maybe 2 or 3 patrolling the town at any given time and I think that's a good thing. I wouldn't want them to be absent unless called upon, it's good that they patrol.

I actually like the cops in Montvale, next door to my town, better than our cops. I call Montvale's police "The Beverly Hills Cops", because every interaction I have had with them, whether they pulled me over (and never gave me a ticket, incidentally) or I interacted with them by calling the PD, or asking one of them a question, or anything, they've always been utterly polite, saying "sir" and free to apologize for any inconvenience. It's often like this, "Good evening sir, how are you tonight? The reason I pulled you over is that you're doing 33 in aa 25 MPH zone. Sir, could you please provide me your license, reg, and insurance sir? Thank you, sir, I'll be a couple minutes...OK sir, please remember that the speed limit here is 25, have a nice night." Or, "Yes sir, I understand the inconvenience and I apologize, we are redirecting traffic due to a fallen tree, again I apologize for the inconvenience, sir, but you'll have to go down Grand Ave. and then make a right..."

Yeah, Montvale cops are the Beverly Hills Cops, lol.

But, I think the OP is overreacting. Cut cops 50%? Have criminal incidents and traffiic accidents and other emergencies dropped by that much, or more??? I don't believe they have, and I don't think the glut of cops is nearly as bad as 50%. Police force is something in which I'd rather we have a glut than a shortage.

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

i dont know towns in bergen country so i chose paramus because i recognize it. anyway, unfortunately, they dont specify years of employment. however, i do see many police earning well over 100k. i saw a couple (in the first couple pages i looked at) with ~50k salaries. too bad they leave out years.

NJ Employee Results

click on the name...i don't see anyone with 3 years making 100K

[njkate]

The highest paid one on your list has 30 years on the job and more then likely in a supervisory position;

Fund Name 2006 Salary Tot. Salary* Years/Months
service time


03 GOGGIN, BRIAN $141,376 $141,376 30/0

This is a much better site:
New Jersey by the Numbers - NJ.com

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by tahiti

click on the name...i don't see anyone with 3 years making 100K

ahh silly me, thanks. i wasnt making any claim as to the validity of the 100k+ salaries. i was just offering that site to help you guys see the salaries.

im not concerned about their salaries, im concerned about their jobs. then the ones that would be left after my job cuts, we can worry about salaries.