Blue Law in Bergen County - Thoughts? (Passaic, Paramus: sales, Home Depot)

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny

So businesses should be allowed to decide whatever they want but communities should have no right to decide what they want.

By that logic, I should be allowed to have a landscaping business that operates in your town from midnight to 6 AM, mowing lawns, firing up noisy machines all night long, because "businesses should be able to decide when they want to be open or not". So if I want my business open from midnight to 6 I should be allowed to make that decision with no pesky community "laws" telling me not to, right?

communities do decide what they want. the business only responds to the desires of the community it serves. if the community desires that it be open (and they demonstrate this by going to the business during that time) then they should be open.

i think this can be qualified with a "within reason" qualification. im not here to write legislation that will perfectly fit to every situation that may come up. you use examples that are totally not relevant to the current thread because you are desperate to come up with a decent point.

[k0bun]

Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny

Who says people are "home" with their families? What, do you think Paramus and Bergen County are nothing but retail stores and malls? There are restaurants, bars/pubs, and grocery stores, all open Sundays. There are parks, churches, temples... And for those who do want to stay home and have guests, it is much easier for the guests to not have to drive through the ridiculous traffic that's there for the malls.

So you're saying there are plenty of places to go with your family on Sunday that doesn't involve shopping? So people aren't just home, they're out and about. But because they are going to a restaurant or park etc., that traffic isn't as bothersome as shopping traffic? I see.

*Possible Response* - Shopping traffic is much more congested.

So you don't want to have to deal with all the family neglecting heathens on your way to the park with your kids? You want everybody to go somewhere else so you can have peace and quiet.

*Possible Response* - There are plenty of other places to go shopping.

True. Just as there are also plenty of other parks and restaurants to take your family. But you don't want to have to drive an extra 10-15 minutes when these conveniences are avilable to you in your own town. Yet whomever wants to shop has to.

Do you see how this can keep going? One person's wants are no more important than another's. You want peace and quiet on Sundays. Others want the ability to go shopping. Whatever the majority decides will be the outcome. Obviously the majority want peace and quiet since these laws are still enforced. But don't act as if the rest are being completely unreasonable by wanting the right to shop in their home town any day of the week.

[luckyshoes]

I do think that individual towns should have control over it though. Teaneck does get kind of screwed since their Jewish population can't shop on Saturdays.

Who ever brought up self-serve gas, don't get me started! Why would you fight for the right to pump your own gas in the rain etc. No thanks!

Blue laws and full service gas, perfect together.

[BergenCountyJohnny]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

communities do decide what they want. the business only responds to the desires of the community it serves. if the community desires that it be open (and they demonstrate this by going to the business during that time) then they should be open.

You're going with the assumption that people who shop in Bergen County are all or mostly from Bergen County. This is simply not true. People come from all over to shop here. Paramus has the second highest retail revenue in the nation, right after Fifth Ave in NY and right ahead of Beverly Hills/Rodeo Dr. There's a lot of money in Bergen County, but not THAT much money. It's coming from people who come to Bergen County specifically to shop.

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

i think this can be qualified with a "within reason" qualification. im not here to write legislation that will perfectly fit to every situation that may come up. you use examples that are totally not relevant to the current thread because you are desperate to come up with a decent point.

Well, as a resident of Bergen County, I think it is well "within reason" to have all retail close up shop for just one day a week. We'll survive. If anyone needs an emergency duvet cover from JC Penney or an emergency cucumber-melon body scrub from Bath & Body works, they can drive another 10 minutes for it to either Wayne or Rockland County or Jersey City. Beyond that people can shop any of the other 6 days of the week.

I don't think business should just be able to do whatever it wants, there are definite limits to what business can do, and one of those limits is what the community decides as to when they can be open. That is very much "within reason".

[luckyshoes]

Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny

If anyone needs an emergency duvet cover from JC Penney or an emergency cucumber-melon body scrub from Bath & Body works, they can drive another 10 minutes for it to either Wayne or Rockland County or Jersey City.

Seriously.

And it's not like the food stores are closed or something that's actually, uh, important.

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny

Well, as a resident of Bergen County, I think it is well "within reason" to have all retail close up shop for just one day a week. We'll survive.

thats fine. but you should realize that even if the majority of people feel that way, there could be 49% of people that disagree and they have a right to disagree. they also should voice their disagreement because if they dont there is no chance they will ever get their way.

you have a tendency to think anyone who opposes your viewpoints are wrong and they should shut up.

[zhelder]

I don't know how I feel about the Blue Laws. Fifteen years ago, I would have said absolutely get rid of them.

But seeing as how much worse traffic has gotten in this area over this time (and trust me, it was plenty horrible to begin with in the 80s and 90s), it's nice to have a day of peace (or at least have a day where it's a little quieter). I do understand, however, the legitimate complaint from observant Jewish people who say it eliminates a shopping day for them. The only compromise I can think of is alternating the closing day between Saturday and Sunday on an annual basis.

What people don't realize, however, is the Paramus Blue Laws are much stricter than the county's. In some other towns, shops are open on Sundays that would never be allowed to be open in Paramus. Here's an example: I was hanging out with my brother a couple of weeks ago. I preordered a video game at the Toys R Us in Wayne, and picked it up on a Sunday. My brother wanted a video game on sale at GameStop, and we knew there was one near the Toys R Us, but we couldn't find it.

We drove back home, and decided we wanted to stop at the awesome Hot Dog Caboose in Midland Park for lunch (not knowing they're closed on Sundays, unfortunately). Since we were in the area, I asked my brother to stop at the CVS in the Midland Park shopping center, which also has a Game Stop. We were both STUNNED to see that it was open! My brother got his game and was very happy.

The Borders bookstore in Ramsey is also open on Sundays. So there are some options for people to shop in Bergen County on Sundays.

[BergenCountyJohnny]

Originally Posted by k0bun

So you're saying there are plenty of places to go with your family on Sunday that doesn't involve shopping? So people aren't just home, they're out and about. But because they are going to a restaurant or park etc., that traffic isn't as bothersome as shopping traffic? I see.

No, I never said that. There are fewer people clogging the roads because most of the throngs of people who flood Bergen County to shop don't crowd our roads when the stores are closed. The amount of traffic is greatly reduced, leaving Bergen County more accessible to its own residents.

Originally Posted by k0bun

*Possible Response* - Shopping traffic is much more congested.

Right. Because "shopping traffic" includes thousands of people from outside of Bergen County who wouldn't be here if not to shop.

Originally Posted by k0bun

So you don't want to have to deal with all the family neglecting heathens on your way to the park with your kids? You want everybody to go somewhere else so you can have peace and quiet.

I never said anyone is a "family-neglecting heathen". There's nothing wrong with shopping, Sunday or otherwise. But Bergen County gets more traffic than any other place because of it, and we want a day without that. I don't want everybody to go somewhere else except to shop. Let our residents enjoy our county one day a week, it's no big deal for the shoppers compared to how big a deal it is for us.

Originally Posted by k0bun

*Possible Response* - There are plenty of other places to go shopping.

True. Just as there are also plenty of other parks and restaurants to take your family. But you don't want to have to drive an extra 10-15 minutes when these conveniences are avilable to you in your own town. Yet whomever wants to shop has to.

There are not plenty of other places to go that are calm, laid-back, uncrowded streets to get to parks etc. I can't even go another 10-15 minutes to be somewhere that isn't jammed up on a Sunday.

What you're saying is that whomever wants to shop should have 7 days a week to shop and that those who want a day of peace and quiet in their county should have zero days of that. I'm saying that 6 days for the shopping and 1 day of peace and quiet is the least that can be done; it's still heavily favoring the shopping. I don't understand the outrage some of you people have over the one day.

You have 6 days to shop, in Dec. you even get extended hours to shop, but you're outraged over ONE day? Not to mention that even if there were no blue laws for Sunday, most businesses are only open for half their hours anyway.

And you have the audacity to imply that the ones who want the ONE day are being the selfish ones???? Do you have any brains at all???

Originally Posted by k0bun

Do you see how this can keep going? One person's wants are no more important than another's. You want peace and quiet on Sundays. Others want the ability to go shopping. Whatever the majority decides will be the outcome. Obviously the majority want peace and quiet since these laws are still enforced. But don't act as if the rest are being completely unreasonable by wanting the right to shop in their home town any day of the week.

They're not being completely unreasonable, but mostly unreasonable. They have 6 days a week to shop, so to whine over not having one (shortened hours) day to buy their CRAP at the mall is spoiled brat-ish. It's just that simple. You can't find time from Monday thru Saturday, 12 hours every day till 9/10/11 PM (depending on the store) to go buy your towels at Bed Bath N Beyond, or your spoiled brat's xbox from Best Buy??? It HAS to be on Sunday betwen 11 AM and 5 PM??? Please, that's a stupid argument. So the county is unreasonable to take away that "option" in order to have one day of calm??? It's unfair for people not to have one day a week because other people (mostly from elsewhere) want to shop 7 days a week, not 6.

And on top of that, you're indignant about it. Get a clue.

[BergenCountyJohnny]

Originally Posted by luckyshoes

Seriously.

And it's not like the food stores are closed or something that's actually, uh, important.

Exactly, lucky.

[BergenCountyJohnny]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

thats fine. but you should realize that even if the majority of people feel that way, there could be 49% of people that disagree and they have a right to disagree. they also should voice their disagreement because if they dont there is no chance they will ever get their way.

you have a tendency to think anyone who opposes your viewpoints are wrong and they should shut up.

That's fine if they disagree, and I welcome their rational opinions.

But saying stupid things like "I think businesses should be allowed to open when they want to be open" is not rational. You said that, and you later added the "within reason" to hedge your earlier statement. Obviously, you DON'T believe businesses should be allowed to operate with NO rules. But that was your response earlier, when you thought you could get away with using that for your whining.

And I have no problem with people who disagree with the blue laws or my view speaking up against either. But that freedom extends to me to argue against them, also. It's funny, you say that I "have a tendency to think anyone who opposes [my] viewpoints are wrong and they should shut up"...

Well, OBVIOUSLY I think anyone opposing my viewpoints is wrong, otherwise I wouldn't have viewpoints those people disagree with. Don't you think people who oppose your viewpoints are wrong??? You make it very clear that you do.

As far as they should "shut up", I don't think they should "shut up". Where in this thread have I asked anyone to "shut up"??? The only people who shoul shut the hell up are the idiot whiners who don't present a viewpoint so much as a whine and complaint that has no reason and no solution behind it.