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View Poll Results: Do you have a security system?
yes 43 52.44%
no 39 47.56%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-04-2010, 08:21 PM
 
7,964 posts, read 6,913,135 times
Reputation: 7553

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elflord1973 View Post
I don't have a problem with people having alarm systems in general.

I think it's a fallacy to suggest that they make you substantially more safe though.

If I'm wrong, please correct me (and please do so by providing some factual evidence to support your position) -- what is your risk or your childs risk of fatality or serious injury caused by an intruder ? How does that compare for example, with their risk of the same from a household accident, automobile accident, or if they're older, a suicide ?
Someone kicks in your front door and an alarm goes off...they're not going to run away faster than if no audible alarm goes off?

Facts? How about common sense? What is the risk from a household incident happening? If everyone lives in a household, I would guess that incidents happen quite often.

People who drive cars or put themselves in a place where others are driving cars...well there's the risk of getting in an automobile accident. You have no control over an ******* driver...so you PROTECT yourself by wearing a seat belt, obeying speed limits and buckling your kids in. Just like you CAN control protecting your home.

Suicide? Are you SERIOUS?

There is no boogyman.

There ARE, however, people who live off of breaking into the households of others to take whatever they can for re-sale.

If you're ok with that, and don't feel that people should deter those types by installing an alarm system for peace of mind or actual need, that's your problem.

My alarm company charges $75/quarter. Not a big expense at all. Same cost of getting the garbage picked up 2x/week.

Do you also have an issue with Secret Service protection for ex and present POTUS'/family members? Or are they all more "special" than your average Joe with a security system?

Last edited by Informed Info; 09-04-2010 at 08:35 PM..
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
2,771 posts, read 5,352,739 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdustmaker View Post
Someone kicks in your front door and an alarm goes off...they're not going to run away faster than if no audible alarm goes off?

Facts? How about common sense? What is the risk from a household incident happening? If everyone lives in a household, I would guess that incidents happen quite often.
Common sense and "guesses" are often wrong. The behavioral tendency is to overestimate the risk of more "scary" scenarios.

I understand that there are plenty of people who have irrational fears. Now if you do make decisions based on irrational fears, then I understand that irrational fears themselves make a compelling argument and no further discussion is needed. The rest of us like to see what the facts are.

Quote:
People who drive cars or put themselves in a place where others are driving cars...well there's the risk of getting in an automobile accident. You have no control over an ******* driver...so you PROTECT yourself by wearing a seat belt, obeying speed limits and buckling your kids in. Just like you CAN control protecting your home.
You do have control though. How many people seriously consider all the ways that they can minimize the risk of getting harmed in an automobile accident ? For example, do people choose where to live based on how dangerous their work commute is ? Perhaps the "safest" neighborhood is the one which requires you to do the least driving, yet that's seldom what people have in mind when they post that they want a "safe" neighborhood.

My recollection is that something like 80% of infant seats are not installed correctly, so the majority of families don't even do the most basic due diligence as far as the safety of their children is concerned.

Quote:
If you're ok with that, and don't feel that people should deter those types by installing an alarm system for peace of mind or actual need, that's your problem.
I'm wondering what the actual benefit is, besides "peace of mind". Since you paid for one, I take it that you are able to explain what the benefits are. In particular, you claim that it makes you safer. My question is, how much safer ?

When a salesman tries to sell me something by appealing to fear and ignorance, I hold onto my wallet very tightly.

I can make a facts-based case for POTUS having extra security. At the very least, Reagan and JFK were shot at, and Bush Sr had some kind of attempt on his life (car bomb I think it was). So your odds at being attacked at are pretty high if you're POTUS. It would not surprise me if the others were threatened at some point or other.

Of course POTUS is a pretty dangerous occupation to begin with, so this protection is to mitigate some of the risk, but if they really wanted to play it safe to begin with, they would have chosen some other line of work. I don't believe anyone ever becomes president without having a serious conversation with their families about the risk to their personal safety that they're taking on.

If you could tell me with a straight face that there's a one in four or higher chance that someone will try to kill you, that would count as a "facts based" case for extraordinary security precautions.

Last edited by elflord1973; 09-05-2010 at 09:59 AM..
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:53 AM
 
312 posts, read 990,581 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by elflord1973 View Post
Common sense and "guesses" are often wrong. The behavioral tendency is to overestimate the risk of more "scary" scenarios.

I understand that there are plenty of people who have irrational fears. Now if you do make decisions based on irrational fears, then I understand that irrational fears themselves make a compelling argument and no further discussion is needed. The rest of us like to see what the facts are.

You do have control though. How many people seriously consider all the ways that they can minimize the risk of getting harmed in an automobile accident ? For example, do people choose where to live based on how dangerous their work commute is ? Perhaps the "safest" neighborhood is the one which requires you to do the least driving, yet that's seldom what people have in mind when they post that they want a "safe" neighborhood.

My recollection is that something like 80% of infant seats are not installed correctly, so the majority of families don't even do the most basic due diligence as far as the safety of their children is concerned.

I'm wondering what the actual benefit is, besides "peace of mind". Since you paid for one, I take it that you are able to explain what the benefits are. In particular, you claim that it makes you safer. My question is, how much safer ?

When a salesman tries to sell me something by appealing to fear and ignorance, I hold onto my wallet very tightly.

I can make a facts-based case for POTUS having extra security. At the very least, Reagan and JFK were shot at, and Bush Sr had some kind of attempt on his life (car bomb I think it was). So your odds at being attacked at are pretty high if you're POTUS. It would not surprise me if the others were threatened at some point or other.

Of course POTUS is a pretty dangerous occupation to begin with, so this protection is to mitigate some of the risk, but if they really wanted to play it safe to begin with, they would have chosen some other line of work. I don't believe anyone ever becomes president without having a serious conversation with their families about the risk to their personal safety that they're taking on.

If you could tell me with a straight face that there's a one in four or higher chance that someone will try to kill you, that would count as a "facts based" case for extraordinary security precautions.
Wow, I cannot believe how far off the mark you are on this thread. People who have alarm systems do not get them because they are scared that someone is going to target them. People get them because they don't want people breaking into their houses.

Are you telling me that home break-ins do not occur? Because I can tell you from experience that they do and the odds are not insignificant. A house on my block was broken into this year in broad daylight. When I was in grade school our home was broken into and ransacked. My elderly grandparents were visiting at the time and what if they actually came home during this home invasion. I know many people whose homes were broken into.

In the times when our alarm system went off accidentally police response time was less than 5 minutes. If someone is going to pick a house to break into I can guarantee you that they are going to pick another house rather than mine as we have door, window, heat, motion, and glass break monitors, and we also have video monitoring of all entrances (which was installed as part of our nanny cam hookup). Home break-ins occur all the time and selfishly I'd rather these burglars pick another home to break into rather than mine. Do I think that me personally is going to be the target of a violet crime in my home? Not at all but I'd rather someone not try to break into my house. We have young kids and going to sleep at night knowing that our home is protected is worth much more than the expense of the security system.

You may think that I am paranoid and live in fear but the truth is I never have second thoughts about my safety and I can guarantee you that I spend less time worrying about attacks in my home (which is practically zero) than the time you spend worrying about how people like me "waste" money on home security.

Really everyone has different priorities and just because many do not share your thoughts on security does not make them ignorant. I really don't understand why you'd feel the need to be condescending to those that choose to spend money differently than you. Also, FYI my car seats are installed properly.
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
1,164 posts, read 1,664,011 times
Reputation: 1000
"Why do so many people in NJ have security systems"


Because of all of the d*****bags that feel the need to break into people's homes and rob them!


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Old 09-05-2010, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
2,771 posts, read 5,352,739 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by artDDS View Post
Wow, I cannot believe how far off the mark you are on this thread. People who have alarm systems do not get them because they are scared that someone is going to target them. People get them because they don't want people breaking into their houses.

Are you telling me that home break-ins do not occur? Because I can tell you from experience that they do and the odds are not insignificant.
No, I agree that the chance of having your place broken into is pretty high, especially if you don't take any preventative measures. I can't remember what the numbers are, but they are fairly high even in "good" towns.

I wouldn't want my place to be broken into, even if they didn't take anything of value and didn't threaten my personal safety.

But you can't deny that fear of "stranger danger" is a factor for some people who install them, including yourself, apparently:
"bogeymen" do exist
-- ArtDDS, http://www.city-data.com/forum/10342546-post54.html

elflord1973, quote your statistics to the Dr. William Petit who lived in a "nice" neighborhood in Connecticut whose house house was invaded in the night,

--ArtDDS, http://www.city-data.com/forum/10364909-post76.html
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Epping,NH
2,097 posts, read 5,397,001 times
Reputation: 1051
Quote:
By the time the alarm activates, notifies the monitoring company, alarm company notifies the police, and the police respond, any burglar is going to be out of your house by then anyway.
They are much more beneficial when no one is home during the day. We had breakin's and the actor takes their time. they will spend more than a few minutes looking for valuables. Unless they are known to the victim's and know exactly where the target items are, they will be inside for an extended period.

Breakin's during the evening hours when the chance of the homeowner being on premises were almost unheard on.

The main issue is getting someone competent to set up the system so it doesn't continually go off accidental and the set the sensors in a manner that doesn't cause activation when the system is set and occupants are inside.

Exterior sirens have faded from use for the most part and have been replaced with interior sound devices. nothing like having the alarm go off several times at 3am to get you in good with the neighbors especially when no one is home to shut it off.

Another important factor is registring the system with the local LE agency. Too many times the system activates and there is an issue with no way to contact anyone to correct the problem.
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:54 PM
 
312 posts, read 990,581 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by elflord1973 View Post
No, I agree that the chance of having your place broken into is pretty high, especially if you don't take any preventative measures. I can't remember what the numbers are, but they are fairly high even in "good" towns.

I wouldn't want my place to be broken into, even if they didn't take anything of value and didn't threaten my personal safety.

But you can't deny that fear of "stranger danger" is a factor for some people who install them, including yourself, apparently:
"bogeymen" do exist
-- ArtDDS, http://www.city-data.com/forum/10342546-post54.html
Of course the fear of bogeymen is a consideration in installing an alarm system but the main reason you install an alarm system is to keep people out. Keeping out bogeymen is an added benefit.

You admit that chances of break ins are high especially if you don't take preventive measures. Well alarm systems are the best preventive measure. A lock is not stopping anyone. I personally do not want to have a gun in the house with young children and dogs are not stopping anyone who is really determined. A properly installed alarm system with police response is the best prevention.

This thread is about the reasons people have alarm systems. People have alarms to keep unwanted people out of their homes, including bogeymen. What is the point of arguing that the chances of bogeymen targeting a household is small?
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Old 09-05-2010, 02:13 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
15,014 posts, read 12,809,987 times
Reputation: 6356
It doesn't matter if the chances of the bogeyman breaking into your home and slicing you up for dinner are small. Fact is that there are crazies out there and it only takes one time for something horrendous to happen. Statistics mean nothing when you find out your child was kidnapped or that your wife was raped and murdered.
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Old 09-05-2010, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
2,771 posts, read 5,352,739 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemycomputer90 View Post
It doesn't matter if the chances of the bogeyman breaking into your home and slicing you up for dinner are small. Fact is that there are crazies out there and it only takes one time for something horrendous to happen.
Depending on what you mean by "something horrendous", the expected time frame could be quite literally hundreds of thousands of years.

Quote:
Statistics mean nothing when you find out your child was kidnapped or that your wife was raped and murdered.
Having the worlds best alarm system means nothing when your family all die in a fatal automobile accident, or when your child dies in a preventable household accident.

It's quite simple -- if you're interested in maximizing the safety of your family, you will seek to minimize their risk, which you can't possibly do without assessing what their risks are, and how to reduce them. Acting out of fear and ignorance doesn't make anyone safer.
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Old 09-05-2010, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
2,771 posts, read 5,352,739 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by artDDS View Post
This thread is about the reasons people have alarm systems. People have alarms to keep unwanted people out of their homes, including bogeymen. What is the point of arguing that the chances of bogeymen targeting a household is small?
The point is that if fear of bogeymen plays a substantial role in your attempts to make you and your family as safe as possible, then your efforts are misplaced and ironically perhaps making you and your family less safe.
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