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This discussion is very interesting to me because I study how people argue with others in Web 2.0 environments, and what this web 2.0 designation means, basically, is places like this--people interpret what other people say in a variety of ways online, and they sometimes cherrypick the words of others to advance the arguments they want to make.
I think that a lot of people just argue for the sake of arguing in environments like this. In other words, they just enjoy arguing, if you say black, they say white.
I also think that people on the Web treat people 100x worse than they would treat people in real life. You know that whole anonymity thing, not being able to see facial expressions and body language. The people who annoy you the most on a message board could be your best friend IRL.
A very interesting book on this is Lee's Siegel's "Against the Machine, Being Human in the Age of the Electronic Mob." It will change the way you look at the internet, and not for good.
The Vanderbilt area is certainly not only college students. Vanderbilt Hospital is there so you will find many in the Medical Profrssion living there. Most of the students live in the dorms or college Housing Apartments. The Vanderbilt area certainly is not the cheapest area to live in, if anything its quite pricy.
I doubt if you have ever been to Nashville.
I was there well over 5 years ago. I did most of my work out of Memphis but I once had to go to Nashville so I drove up from Memphis. I stayed 2 nights at the Sheraton downtown and worked a couple blocks away. I remember seeing the state capitol and Adelphi Stadium from my hotel and from my office. My first night I drove around and went to Music Row, it was a nice and fun area. I had an OK meal and went to a couple bars. My second night a couple of co-workers took me out to music row and I had a better meal (but having just come from Memphis, the barbecue in Memphis was better). I was impressed that Nashville is much more alive at night than Memphis was. It is a very nice little city. There were some downsides - a lot of areas I drove through were clearly not very safe and very rundown. But that's normal for any city to have those areas.
So I was there but only scratched the surface. My brother has worked there a lot and I get most of my info from him. He loves Nashville and it's one of his favorite cities to go to. Personally, I think Austin is much better for a similar city, but I have spent a lot more time in Austin.
Anyway, my goal isn't to bash Nashville. My point is that it's not the utopia you claim it is and that your reasons for moving don't make a whole lot of sense to me. Much of what's available there is available here.
If you love it there and are happy there, then that's great for you. I don't see why you have to make inane and unrealistic jabs at NJ, though, if you really are so happy where you are.
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Originally Posted by Diane Giam
I'm thinking its been years since you have left Bergen county.
Fine, think what you want. The fact is that it's been well over 10 years since I've gone an entire year without leaving NJ on trips to at least 5 different cities, and most of those years I've gone to well over 10 different cities each year. Business is slow lately, but so far this year I've been to Buffalo, Cleveland, Raleigh, Philly (doesn't count though, it's too close to home) and Los Angeles. I have a trip to Atlanta in a few weeks, and if all goes well I'll be going to Detroit and Lansing, Michigan a couple weeks after that, where I'll spend almost a month. Last year I went to Seattle, Vancouver, Portland, Dallas, Austin, Cincinnati, Chicago, and Los Angeles. And none of this includes my personal vacations, which are usually to Vegas, Montreal, West Palm Beach, Tampa, L.A., San Diego, San Francisco, or Albuquerque. I have the Continental OnePass miles Hertz #1 rewards, and HHonors points to prove it; my personal trips are all almost completely free - the airfare plus any Hilton hotel are free with my miles and points.
So think what you want, but I not only leave Bergen County all the time to travel (probably more than you), but I also have seen enough of the nation to be able to make a comparison amongst all these places. Nashville is not very high up on my list, even though it is very nice for a small city.
I doubt you've spent much time in most of the rest of the nation, and I'm sure you haven't spent nearly as much time as I have in other parts of the US.
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Originally Posted by Diane Giam
Btw, I had 3 divorced friends in NJ, Not one here. Are you making up statistics?
Diane G
No, I'm not making up anything, and I didn't provide statistics. I provided anecdotal evidence as you are doing by saying you have 3 divorced friends in NJ.
I have divorced friends here, too. The difference is that:
- they are in the minority - most of my friends are married to their first spouse still
- they married in their late 20's or older, and divorced in their 30's
- with one exception, none of them have kids from two spouses
- none of them have more than one ex.
My experience in Nashville was that the girl I worked with was 27 at the time and just divorced her third husband, she had children from her first and third husbands. She married her first husband when she was 18. One of the guys I worked with was 40 and on his 4th wife. All the people I worked with were divorced at least once with one exception, a very nice, very religious Christian man who was 55 years old but a grandfather of 6 grandkids.
My experience in Memphis was about the same. I worked with about 7 very attractive young women in that office, ranging from 20 to 25, and with the exception of the 21-year-old girl who was never married and had no kids, the other girls were all married, divorced, and/or with kids. There were two older women in their 40's-50's who were both divorced, one was divorced three times.
That's the lifestyle there. I'm not comfortable with it. I wouldn't want to live in such a place. And that's not to say these people were bad or unfriendly; they were all extremely nice, hospitable people. We did very nice things for each other and were friendly enough to keep in touch even after I'd leave Memphis. But their values are different. It's common there for people to get married/pregnant/divorced at a very young age.
This discussion is very interesting to me because I study how people argue with others in Web 2.0 environments, and what this web 2.0 designation means, basically, is places like this--people interpret what other people say in a variety of ways online, and they sometimes cherrypick the words of others to advance the arguments they want to make. I think Bergen County Johnny (BCJ) does this, and, as much as I appreciate his posts and share his enthusiasm for NJ, sometimes I think he gets too engrossed in proving an overly narrow point--that people who leave NJ do so purely for financial reasons--that he misses the forest for the trees. As a newcomer to NJ, it is not important for me to nitpick about why people leave. It could be the forest, it could be the trees, and it could also be the price of coal in TN--why is that important?
My point was never "that people who leave NJ do so purely for financial reasons". My point was that Diane Giam's reason for leaving was more largely due to financial reasons than the reasons she's giving us.
I don't care why people leave NJ. I really couldn't care less. There are plenty of great reasons to leave other than money. I myself consider leaving for warmer weather and for a desert environment, or for the different lifestyle of Southern California. Sometimes I even consider a move that has a lot to do with financial reasons. There's nothing wrong with leaving NJ and liking someplace else better.
However, this doesn't mean it's fine and dandy to go around bashing NJ for whatever reason. That's what I have a problem with and that's what I speak up about.
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Originally Posted by diva360
Perhaps this example will illustrate what I mean, and, perhaps it won't. When I first started posting here, I mentioned that the parking restrictions in NJ seemed to be draconian to me because I got a ticket, something that would never have happened in TX. (You've all probably seen the notices restricting parking in the suburbs that I am talking about, and these restrict parking between, say, 2:30 and 6:00 a.m. in the morning posted on all the major roads traversing these little towns; I didn't notice them because I wasn't looking for them when I first moved here, and how could I have--believe me, these issues are of little concern to small Texas towns). The point I want to make is that people slammed me here originaly for being a troll because I was "bashing" NJ when in reality I was merely reacting to a set of laws I had never encountered before, and I was attacked for doing so as if I was insulting NJ, but all I was trying to do was put what I know about NJ in conversation with what I know about NM. If NJ wants to attract new residents as well as deal with its past, it needs to stop treating newcomers like outsiders. I think that what we all need to do is exercise our imaginations and consider how people from a lot of different perspectives might think about things. I believe it was BCJ who first said I was a troll based on my complaining about the stupid draconian laws in Summit, and I will still maintain that they are stupid and draconian--in a town where fires never happen, why do you need to prepare for it? I just don't get it.
It was not me and I don't appreciate the blind accusation. If I were to say anything about that situation, I'd have said that I can see how you might find those laws unreasonable or stupid, especially not knowing (at least at first) the reason, but still describing them as "draconian" is pretty extreme. I got one of those tickets once and went to my town's court and they dismissed it, probably because I'm a resident. Anyway, there could very well be a great reason for the law.
In any case, I certainly did not call you a "troll" for that post of yours, even if I do disagree with it.
I think what you're doing is stereotyping me and making presumptions about me based on that stereotype; I must say, I thought you might be more open-minded than that, but perhaps I was wrong.
Yes, weather does factor in sometimes.
That is why we will look at a warmer climate for the winter
I would love San Diego but from what I'm told I couldn't afford a tool shed there let alone a house...now if I wanted to go 45 mins south into Mexico the weather would be the same & houses cheaper ( not cheap anymore) but cheaper than San Diego
To the people who actually moved out of NJ, is it better? Not is your bills better I could care less about bills and tax my question is where is a better option of a place like a NJ that a person can get used to and where the adjustment not be too harsh? Curious as to why its better excluding money reasons. When you go outside lets say 20 miles in each direction is it just as good??? Problem I find is I may like many other places and towns but 20 -25 miles outside that town it sucks. Basically you breeze thru the town your nice area and have crap everywhere else. Can you name that perfect place??
actually I just saw a similar post down below so pass this up sorry!!! I will read first!!!!
I was born and raised in NJ. I left Jersey in 94 and moved to TN at age 26. Best move I ever made. I first moved to Nashville and then 6 years later moved 30 miles southeast and now live in in Murfreesboro. This is HOME and I LOVE it here.
I was born and raised in NJ. I left Jersey in 94 and moved to TN at age 26. Best move I ever made. I first moved to Nashville and then 6 years later moved 30 miles southeast and now live in in Murfreesboro. This is HOME and I LOVE it here.
Steve, and both my children love Murfreesboro also. I've been there more than here the last 2 weeks. I had a verry sick son. He had such a case of Mono, it landed him in ICU. The doctors were good and he is on the Mend, returning to work on Monday. I'll be on St Andrews dR Tomorrow, taking him to his ENT.
Yes, weather does factor in sometimes.
That is why we will look at a warmer climate for the winter
I would love San Diego but from what I'm told I couldn't afford a tool shed there let alone a house...now if I wanted to go 45 mins south into Mexico the weather would be the same & houses cheaper ( not cheap anymore) but cheaper than San Diego
I was watching house Hunters and the had homes for 6K that would fit in my bonus room. My closet has bigger than some of those rooms, and I have a Huge double floor to ceiling window in it, and I did not pay 6K.
My point was never "that people who leave NJ do so purely for financial reasons". My point was that Diane Giam's reason for leaving was more largely due to financial reasons than the reasons she's giving us.
I don't care why people leave NJ. I really couldn't care less. There are plenty of great reasons to leave other than money. I myself consider leaving for warmer weather and for a desert environment, or for the different lifestyle of Southern California. Sometimes I even consider a move that has a lot to do with financial reasons. There's nothing wrong with leaving NJ and liking someplace else better.
However, this doesn't mean it's fine and dandy to go around bashing NJ for whatever reason. That's what I have a problem with and that's what I speak up about.
It was not me and I don't appreciate the blind accusation. If I were to say anything about that situation, I'd have said that I can see how you might find those laws unreasonable or stupid, especially not knowing (at least at first) the reason, but still describing them as "draconian" is pretty extreme. I got one of those tickets once and went to my town's court and they dismissed it, probably because I'm a resident. Anyway, there could very well be a great reason for the law.
In any case, I certainly did not call you a "troll" for that post of yours, even if I do disagree with it.
I think what you're doing is stereotyping me and making presumptions about me based on that stereotype; I must say, I thought you might be more open-minded than that, but perhaps I was wrong.
FIRST OFF, IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FINANCIAL REASONS-You don't seem to understand that. I sold a house with a small mortgage left on it. I used the equity to buy a simular price house here. Whatever I did not use for the house I used in Closing Costs and Purchasing mostly all new furniture. Yes, I bought a house that in NJ would be close to a Mil, but here was about the same price as the house I sold.
I could not stay in that house in NJ. All I saw was the OIL tank Remediation. I am not the only neighbor that left the state after enduring that. Two others followed me.
Let's face it, my husband is 60, Would I want to retire where I had to shovel snow? I had a huge driveway, still do, and there were many winters that I spent hours in the cold shoveling. My husband bought a shovel here, and it sits unused in the garage. I keep telling him that Target saw him coming.
Also I went to college here so its aways been part of my life.
You want Desert, go to Phonix, they are ready to bagain there for a home because things are not good there. A friend just bought 2 condos there for under $200,000. He bought them as an investment.
Diane G
Diane, sweetheart, you did move for the money and that's OK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane Giam
I was watching house Hunters and the had homes for 6K that would fit in my bonus room. My closet has bigger than some of those rooms, and I have a Huge double floor to ceiling window in it, and I did not pay 6K.
Diane G
We moved to New Jersey from Mississippi for the money too!
You had oil tank troubles and commute woes, we had other/very different issues. Our decision to move to New Jersey was the best decision we have ever made (although, I did enjoy the south tremendously).
Moving to a new State can be difficult, the adjustment can take a bit of time.
I guess my point is, you don't move for the size of your "bonus room", and I'm sure you didn't do that, but it sure reads like "size" matters to you.
We never spent much time in our "bonus room" in Mississippi.
I think it's circular. Higher earnings lead to higher spending, which leads to higher taxes, which leads to higher earnings. Until one factor is broken - earnings level off, or taxes or spending level off - the cycle continues to grow.
If is true, then why aren't communist countries the worlds most prosperous ? It was recently posted that the poorer areas in NJ had higher property tax burdens as a portion of income.
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It's interesting you think that. I wish you had some kind of evidence to back that up.
My experience has been that neo-cons want the reduction in property tax taken out of local school spending as well as the reduction in income tax taken out of state funding of the Abbott system.
Most right wingers aren't "authoritarian" but lean towards libertarian. Of course, there are many neo-cons who simply use libertarianism to get people to abandon authoritarian governments controlled by liberals in order to re-establish their own authoritarian governments, much like Bush's regime sought to dismantle Clinton's work in order to replace it with his own authoritarian regime. But at the current stage of the game, ,NJ Republicans are crying out for libertarian principles and not yet authoritarian ones.
Unfortunately don't have time to dig up psych studies. Will do when I get the chance. As much as you probably think I'm "right wing", I quite liked Clinton and I absolutely despised Bush (and for that matter, the McCain-Palin ticket).
I don't really understand what this "right wing" that you speak of is. The mainstream conservative movement is strongly anti gay rights, pro war on drugs, in favor of overbearing and heavy handed law enforcement (e.g. patriot act).
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I don't find it odd that Republicans champion "reforms" which are clearly capitalist and put money before people. Democrats also champion reforms, but they tend to put people ahead of money.
Without knowing which reforms you mean, it's hard to comment. Pro-union policies put unions ahead of everyone else. They introduce considerable inefficiency into the system at the expense of tax payers.
Because the prevailing system is very regressive, it is very punitive towards the middle and working class.
Basically, the middle and working class cannot afford to fund such a bloated system.
Labeling something like school choice as "capitalist" is short sighted. "Socialist" Sweden has vouchers. Super-liberal Montclair has a system where you get to choose your school. Australia's schools are funded by the state, and attending schools outside your residence is permitted. School non-choice is extremely regressive.
Even universities in the US operate more intelligently -- you don't get world-beating universities by running them like the high schools ! Universities get funding via a mix of student fees, and grants that they need to compete for, donations, and state funding. Even though there is inefficiency in the system, the competitive nature of the grant system provides a means to move resources towards more productive faculty, and more successful institutions.
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Probably, but the spectrum is shifted so far to the right that most radical right-wingers call me a liberal. Also, I am a registered Democrat, but originally I was registered as a Republican.
The irony is, some Republicans are championing reforms that would offer a way out to those who are stuck in poor school districts. The democrats want to keep them there, because that's what the teachers unions want.
Ironically, it's also what any true right wing authoritarian would want.
The losers are working and middle class private sector employees who are forced to pick up the tab for this bloat.
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