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More people are heading out of NJ than heading into it, that's true, but the people leaving NJ are much poorer than the people heading into it. Having an educated populace and a safe environment keep NJ growing more prosperous every year. Eventually the lack of education in places like TN, NC, etc. will create an oversupply of middle-income workers and the supply of jobs will shrink, resulting in even lower pay for those middle class workers. And NJ's geographic advantage (in terms of the economy) will never change unless NY and Philly somehow die and lose their prominence. In fact, NJ cities are improving and this will only lend to NJ's future prosperity.
Where do you get this stuff?? Do you not read the reports that have been posted repeatedly that show billions of dollars of net tax revenue being lost every year as people leave NJ? Or do you just choose not to believe them, and instead live in your fantasy world where the only people leaving NJ are uneducated, barefoot morons, and they're being met at the border by MBA-carrying socialites coming in?
Sure, there are some high $$ folks heading to NJ as a relief from the higher cost of living in NYC and/or Philly, but you're also getting an influx of immigrants who are moving to NJ, and then moving their entire families to live in a single house in Edison or Iselin, where you've got 10 people living, 5 kids in the school system, and 2 people working.
Keep listening- that sucking sound is the sound of tax revenue leaving the state- you'll hear it eventually.
Where do you get this stuff?? Do you not read the reports that have been posted repeatedly that show billions of dollars of net tax revenue being lost every year as people leave NJ? Or do you just choose not to believe them, and instead live in your fantasy world where the only people leaving NJ are uneducated, barefoot morons, and they're being met at the border by MBA-carrying socialites coming in?
I never said we're gaining more people; we are losing more people than we're gaining, and the loss in net tax revenue is amongst a lot of low-middle income earners. The people moving in are a lot of immigrants but a lot of higher earners as well. Those immigrants will benefit from the higher quality of life so that their next generation will be prosperous. Meanwhile, the high income earners who are moving to the state are going to pay for a lot of it; but they will benefit from a more prosperous NJ and more upper-middle class to wealthy people with whom they will split the bill in the future. That's why they come here.
I never said the people leaving NJ are "uneducated, barefoot morons". Nor are the people coming in "MBA-carrying socialites". The people leaving are generally lower earners than the higher earners coming in - that's all I said.
The only group that I see this as having an adverse effect on is the group of seniors in NJ. However, even they should realize that if they are going to pack up and leave to someplace far away there are actually very affordable options within NJ, particularly in South Jersey, which rival the cost:benefit ratio they'd get in some southern state. Even the weather in South Jersey is a big improvement over North Jersey, but it's still not as balmy as Florida or the deep south, which is why I suspect they opt for the latter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs
Sure, there are some high $$ folks heading to NJ as a relief from the higher cost of living in NYC and/or Philly,
Sure, there are plenty of those folks, and there are also those higher earners from other states who come to NJ because they can market themselves in a better job market in NJ, NYC, or Philly. If I'm a top doctor in North Carolina, I can probably write my own ticket wherever I live; if I happen to also want to live in a more vibrant, exciting place with more professional visibility, better cultural scene, safer communities, top-notch public schools and a generally better-educated populace, then I might as well write my own ticket in NYC, Philly, or NJ and live in NJ. I have a new neighbor down the street who is originally from Texas, was a top engineer for his company in North Carolina, and had the opportunity for a better job in NJ so he moved here. The NJ company lured him, the best and the brightest, to NJ. Conversely, NC is going to tend to not lure someone like him into staying but instead lure someone from NJ who is an average person and finding the costs to be increasingly too high for him, so he'll move to NC, make a gain by buying a nice home for cash in a nice neighborhood with the equity from his NJ home, but then he will be competing for lower pay for the same work and that will continue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs
but you're also getting an influx of immigrants who are moving to NJ, and then moving their entire families to live in a single house in Edison or Iselin, where you've got 10 people living, 5 kids in the school system, and 2 people working.
Where are you getting this information from? Particularly about 10 people living in a house?? I'm sure that happens here but no more so than anywhere else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs
Keep listening- that sucking sound is the sound of tax revenue leaving the state- you'll hear it eventually.
So if tax revenue is being sucked out of the state, who is doing the sucking - Atlanta??? I won't argue that Atlanta sucks.
We moved to De., because Ft. Monmouth is closing. I miss NJ and the amenities, but now we can afford to have a nice house and live a good life style that is comfortable for us. We still have a great school district and are not that far from everything, but my taxes are super cheap.
Where do you get this stuff?? Do you not read the reports that have been posted repeatedly that show billions of dollars of net tax revenue being lost every year as people leave NJ? Or do you just choose not to believe them, and instead live in your fantasy world where the only people leaving NJ are uneducated, barefoot morons, and they're being met at the border by MBA-carrying socialites coming in?
Sure, there are some high $$ folks heading to NJ as a relief from the higher cost of living in NYC and/or Philly, but you're also getting an influx of immigrants who are moving to NJ, and then moving their entire families to live in a single house in Edison or Iselin, where you've got 10 people living, 5 kids in the school system, and 2 people working.
Keep listening- that sucking sound is the sound of tax revenue leaving the state- you'll hear it eventually.
How true Bob, billions leaving and a lot less coming in. True fact. It's simple to read article after article about it.
How true Bob, billions leaving and a lot less coming in. True fact. It's simple to read article after article about it.
Of course it's true. Those who are lower to middle class are leaving and are being replaced by upper classes who have more money to contribute to the state. Considering that most who leave are whiney crybabies, it's a win-win situation for NJ.
If only there was a way to motivate the other whiners to hurry up and leave...if the law allowed it, I'd volunteer to motivate them with a swift kick of my boot to their asses.
I don't know about the "go anywhere" advice, especially from a person who moved to Denver and thinks it's an improvement over NJ.
It is a vast improvement, and I lived in many places, not just NY/NJ. But I actually agree with one of your friends who said "the last thing we need in Colorado is another Californian or NJ'an here..."
The continuing influx of NJ-ers and NYC-ers will definitely ruin the vibe. Stay put where you are
Please tell us where you can find the combination of "great schools, quality of life and low crime" that you find in NJ. Not one or the other, all three together. Would be very interested to hear.....
ahem, NJ has no quality of life whatsoever (unless you consider 1-2hr long commuting to the City "a life").
With Trenton, Camden and Newark (and the Oranges) in the state, it is presumptuous to speak about "low crime" rate as well.
Good public schools at the cost of paying $10K-20K a year in taxes? duh. In some states, for the same amount of $, you can send a kid to a great private school.
ahem, NJ has no quality of life whatsoever (unless you consider 1-2hr long commuting to the City "a life").
With Trenton, Camden and Newark (and the Oranges) in the state, it is presumptuous to speak about "low crime" rate as well.
Good public schools at the cost of paying $10K-20K a year in taxes? duh. In some states, for the same amount of $, you can send a kid to a great private school.
1. The quality of life in NJ is fantastic. What you are talking about is the stress of paying to live here. Do you really think everyone commutes to the city?
2. Crime in suburbs is exceptionally low in NJ. Virtually non-existent. You just do not find nuisance crime, vandalism, homeless in the NJ suburbs..and this is a fact that you can't dispute.
3. You have obviously not researched private schools at all. The minimum you are going to pay for a private school (and I am not talking Catholic school) is 14k a year. Unless you only have one child there is no way you can come out ahead - even if your property taxes are 20k in NJ.
I'll ask again as I have yet to get an answer. Where can you get low crime rate, good quality of life and great schools, like you find in NJ?
It is a vast improvement, and I lived in many places, not just NY/NJ. But I actually agree with one of your friends who said "the last thing we need in Colorado is another Californian or NJ'an here..."
The continuing influx of NJ-ers and NYC-ers will definitely ruin the vibe. Stay put where you are
Mod cut
I've been all over this nation and Denver is not an improvment over NJ except perhaps for an avid skier, and even then it's only because of the proximity to great skiing.
Colorado Springs might be an improvement over NJ, but few of the Denver immigrants from NJ and CA have the sense to move there. If I were going to move to CO in the last 5 years I'd have moved to the Springs, I'm not clueless enough to move to Denver.
Good luck in Denver, hope you don't get shot or killed by the gangs. Just carry your gat and watch your back if you decide to go downtown for some Cheesecake Factory or Rock Bottom Brewing Company, or maybe Maggiano's where you can try to pretend there's good Italian food in Denver (but there's not).
Last edited by Viralmd; 03-09-2010 at 07:04 AM..
Reason: Personal attack.
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Particularly about 10 people living in a house?? I'm sure that happens here but no more so than anywhere else.
