Reaganism & Its Consequences (New Brunswick: fit in, employment, buy)

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by diva360

Oh, and I just read the preface to the *The South Was Right!* book, and its author comes right out and says that the intended audience is white nationalists. Just wanted to double check that I was being accurate in what I said.

could you direct me to that, i couldnt find it?

i see that book has hundreds of positive reviews as do many of the other recommended books of a similar nature. of course, they are all just white nationalists so please look the other way and believe the crap they taught you in grade school.

[JerseyG]

Originally Posted by Ninjahedge

You guys are missing something about health care.

The only "missing thing" when it comes to health care is denying illegals. I don't CARE what some hippo oath says...it doesn't apply when someone else has to pick up the bill.

Medicaid is out there..state aid is out there. Getting the very comfortable welfare recipient horse to take a sip out of the water when it interferes with with taking time out of their very busy schedule of smoking/drinking/whining/not being able to find the time to fill out some paperwork...different story.

Now let me ADD that there a three very different types of people who are in need (excluding illegals). There are those who don't wanna work and or/won't get out of bed for less than a $15/hr dollar job (no lie, contact me through pm and I'll give you the address of my business and you can come see for yourself...apparently making ZERO dollars an hour is better than insulting their 8th grade education with $15/hr...with a $50-$100 per day drug habit). Then there are those who can't work enough hours to put food on the table and don't have 7 kids they can't afford. Then there are those who could never make ends meet, no matter what, yet they keep on having kid on top of kid on top of kid on top of kid on top of kid...b/c more babies bring more "happiness" to that single- wide about to be taken away from them.....

The good and hard-working people who fall into hard times and get meshed together with the crap who LIKE their government homes/allowance/20 kids they could never afford to begin with..... are the ones who lose.

Until that line of delineation can be specified for each and every case, I have no sympathy for the "poor me's" who live off of tax-payers. Buy a condom. Get your lazy behind to the county court house and fill out the paperwork. Stop waiting for everyone else to do it FOR you and PAY your way.

But they won't, it's easier to wallow in "poor me" and "I joined myself a gang because my mamma didn't tell me who my baby-daddy be". And those MORONS attend a 180 MILLION dollar Abbott school..yet to open, but so pathetic in gesture and what a waste (New Brunswick HS). State of the art everything for gang-bangers, illegals and other morons. While the kids who have parents who care, have to deal with fishing through micro-fiche instead of smart boards, sweating in June heat due to lack of a/c while the gang bangers are wearing their hoodies and wool caps to keep warm in June, and at the NJ tax payers expense.

[diva360]

the only reason that you keep referring to the opposition viewpoint as white nationalists is because of your ridiculous bias. i am not a white nationalist and i think anyone with common sense would agree with me. writing a paper in an academic setting means little, especially when im sure you decided your position before you even put pen to paper.

i dont think you have given any legitimate justification for a war that killed 700k Americans. okay, the south fired the first shot. did 700,000 people fire that shot? lots of shots get fired that dont trigger full scale war. ok, lets say that seceding from the union isnt technically legal. once again, does that mean you launch a full scale campaign murdering southern soldiers, murdering southern civilians and burning down their homes and fields? if your answer is yes, then you take some kind of sick pleasure in the deaths of Americans.

im sure you were crying about how america shouldnt have invaded iraq. you probably say america is too violent and involved itself in wars that it has no business. we kill some civilians by accident in afghanistan and you call america the devil. 700,000 americans die for no legitimate reason and it brings a smile to your face.

its comical that you bring up some paper you wrote in grad school and some university books as if you are some kind of expert in the real world. im sorry but in a school they may respect your research into an issue you had already formed your conclusions about. in the real world, we dont care about what you wrote in grad school, even if the teacher gave you a big old A+. i dont even think you are applying the readings to what i am saying. i think you are trying to lump me into some group that i dont belong because you cant come up with a better retort than say anyone who disagrees with north murdering southerners is a white nationalist. im not discussing legality of secession. im not even going into the states rights debate. im simply saying that murdering 700,000 americans wasnt the best way to go in this situation. i really dont understand how someone can say im wrong.

could you direct me to that, i couldnt find it?

i see that book has hundreds of positive reviews as do many of the other recommended books of a similar nature. of course, they are all just white nationalists so please look the other way and believe the crap they taught you in grade school.

I am most decidedly not expecting people to care about a paper I wrote in grad school before I became a professor, I was merely trying to show that I have read a lot about the subject we are discussing. The fact is that white nationalists do like the argument you have been making, but that doesn't imply that you are a white nationalist, and I never said that it did. And no, I didn't have any conclusions in mind when I wrote that paper, which, by the way, has a good chance of getting published in an academic journal.

And no, I don't think the Civil War was good, in fact I think it was tragic. No one--whether in the North or South--should have had to die. I think it is truly tragic that the slavery question couldn't be settled through argumentation because of the South's intransigence in the 19th century and refusal to discuss slavery rationally. See Patricia Roberts-Miller's *Fanatical Schemes: Proslavery Rhetoric and the Tragedy of Consensus* for a pretty fair representation of my views on the subject. And believe me, I don't remember much of what I learned in grade school, much less believe it. I've been far more influenced in my thinking and ways of presenting my thoughts by my twelve years of education after high school. And by saying this I am not trying to sound better than anyone, I am again merely saying that I have read a lot of books. I think the world would be a better place if everyone would read lots of books, too. I think more books equals less violence, which is all to the good.

And to answer your question about how to read the preface of the book that you yourself posted a link to, just go to the Amazon page, look by the picture of the book's dust jacket, and click on "look inside." If you then click on "first pages," the first pages will pop up and be easily viewable.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

all best--diva

[elflord1973]

Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny

Common defense? That's socialist or communist. I guess you're saying our Constitution is selecively communist. Why can't people hire their own protection? If there were competition amongst armies then we could pay more efficient ones that don't buy $800 toilet seats. Free market, liberty, competition, capitalism, and all that.

We already have private armies (see Blackwater). It creates serious problems with respect to accountability.

Voluntary, bilaterally informed transactions only work when those transactions don't have an impact on those who are not a party to the transaction (e.g. if two people can cut a deal that imposes costs on an unwilling third party)

For example, if someone sends a private army overseas, that leaves open the potential for all kinds of diplomatic, military or other violent retaliation which could affect those who didn't send the private army overseas.

[Ninjahedge]

JG, i partially agree with what yuo are saying, but we are looking at it worng. The problem is not with illegals sapping the system. AAMOF, most of them do NOT come in unless their life depends on it simply because theya re afraid of being deported (whether they will be or not).

I saw a chinese guy in queens get run over while riding his bike. He picked up the bike, bleeding, bent wheel and all, and ran away before the paramedics could be called. I think he was an illegal that did not want to be found. Did he cost the med system anything? Not unless that got serious, in which case it cost us MORE that he did not get help immediately rather than waiting until it got worse!!!

The main problem we have here is simple. We do not enforce our own labor laws. Why? Because that blind eye on the migrant workers give us cheap food and other products. The same people that you call out as not working for less than $15 /hr (which you can get shovelling horse poo at some suburban horse stables, BTW) are the same ones that will demand that much for picking lettuce, strawberries or whatever.

As soon as that is what we are forced to pay for, wath produce prices skyrocket, causing some farms to have financial difficulty as we stop buying from one before another.

Also, if there is no real incentive, as in easily available low-wage jobs, then there is no REASON to jump the fence. Our main problem with this is simple, we start enforcing the laws that are there, in regards to making sure illegals are NOT mowing our lawns, picking our produce and filling in the potholes on Rt. ### and maybe there will be less of an incentive for them to come.

If less come, less will get hurt, and less will use the med system.

Hell, if people could get in and out of Berlin with the wall up, how is building a bigger one across all of Texas going to keep people out without Boku $?

But that is another topic. I do agree with your general categorizations, although I may differ with some specifics. There are the baby factories that have kids to feel important and needed (they have also found that, in general, the less educated the woman, the more they felt the need for kids to prove their worth... weird correlation, but believable) And it is not as if these ladies were marrying, or even just sleeping with the cream of the crop when it comes to Daddys.

There is also that "too low for me" crowd. But one important point we have missed on that is the lack of progressive unemployment. We have no graduated system. You either GET welfare or not. You GET unemployment or not. If we had a program that made it so that someone who lost their $70K job got PARTIAL unemployment while working at Arby's so that they earned more money than just sitting back and doing nothing, more people would work (and ironically, contribute a bit BACK into the Unemployment fund).

Same thnig for Welfare. If someone WILL take that crap job, paying them a BIT of Welfare to make it so that the combo is more than Welfare alone would encourage people to work. But we don't have that. Why work 40hrs at McD's only to earn less than you did going to the Welfare department payroll?

Diva, don't worry about CNJ, he trolls a lot. Very confrontational and not very well founded in his accusations on many controversial issues. He will never agree with you even if you were to say the Earth was round if he said something different at the start, so just leave it at the fact that most of us here believe a graduate historian in 19th century History is more informed about teh civil war than someone who qoutes propagandist publications aimed at segregationist audiences.


You really shot yourself in the foot with that one CNJ! Careful what you Google, it may not be the best thing to post!!!

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by diva360

I am most decidedly not expecting people to care about a paper I wrote in grad school before I became a professor, I was merely trying to show that I have read a lot about the subject we are discussing. The fact is that white nationalists do like the argument you have been making, but that doesn't imply that you are a white nationalist, and I never said that it did. And no, I didn't have any conclusions in mind when I wrote that paper, which, by the way, has a good chance of getting published in an academic journal.

And no, I don't think the Civil War was good, in fact I think it was tragic. No one--whether in the North or South--should have had to die. I think it is truly tragic that the slavery question couldn't be settled through argumentation because of the South's intransigence in the 19th century and refusal to discuss slavery rationally. See Patricia Roberts-Miller's *Fanatical Schemes: Proslavery Rhetoric and the Tragedy of Consensus* for a pretty fair representation of my views on the subject. And believe me, I don't remember much of what I learned in grade school, much less believe it. I've been far more influenced in my thinking and ways of presenting my thoughts by my twelve years of education after high school. And by saying this I am not trying to sound better than anyone, I am again merely saying that I have read a lot of books. I think the world would be a better place if everyone would read lots of books, too. I think more books equals less violence, which is all to the good.

And to answer your question about how to read the preface of the book that you yourself posted a link to, just go to the Amazon page, look by the picture of the book's dust jacket, and click on "look inside." If you then click on "first pages," the first pages will pop up and be easily viewable.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

all best--diva

it seems like you have made a strong effort in saying that anyone who argues against the "civil war" is a white nationalist.

the slavery issue would have been resolved without warfare. it would have taken more time because of the south's dependence on slave labor but it would have happened. slavery was most definitely wrong, and every minute of it is a tragedy but so is killing so many Americans when a peaceful solution can be reached.

i wasnt asking where to go to read some of the book, i found that. i skimmed through the preface and didnt see where it said that it was directed at white nationalists. could you tell me what page and where on the page it says that?

[Ninjahedge]

CNJ, with all due respect, I am only reading what is being quoted by you. I know you well enough to know better than to read your postings on a political thread. You are very combative and trollish.

It serves no purpose other than to start a fight.

So whether or not you replied to me, it just does not matter. As I have said, I learned and now I know better.

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by Ninjahedge

CNJ, with all due respect, I am only reading what is being quoted by you. I know you well enough to know better than to read your postings on a political thread. You are very combative and trollish.

It serves no purpose other than to start a fight.

So whether or not you replied to me, it just does not matter. As I have said, I learned and now I know better.

what was the purpose of this post? i have been responding to diva, not you.

im not fighting, im sharing my opinion and disagreeing with diva's opinion. im not even really sure what her opinion is because she is primarily concerned with stating that my opinion is only generally accepted by white nationalists. i find that hard to believe because im confident there are many millions of americans who think 700k Americans died senselessly in the war of northern aggression.

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by Ninjahedge

Diva, don't worry about CNJ, he trolls a lot. Very confrontational and not very well founded in his accusations on many controversial issues. He will never agree with you even if you were to say the Earth was round if he said something different at the start, so just leave it at the fact that most of us here believe a graduate historian in 19th century History is more informed about teh civil war than someone who qoutes propagandist publications aimed at segregationist audiences.


You really shot yourself in the foot with that one CNJ! Careful what you Google, it may not be the best thing to post!!!

how did i shoot myself in the foot? i cant find where in that preface the author claims they are directing the book to "white nationalists."

i wouldnt mind if someone actually stated what part of the civil war they actually agreed with which in turn justifies the terrible loss of life that happened in the civil war.

[BergenCountyJohnny]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

how did i shoot myself in the foot? i cant find where in that preface the author claims they are directing the book to "white nationalists."

i wouldnt mind if someone actually stated what part of the civil war they actually agreed with which in turn justifies the terrible loss of life that happened in the civil war.

The abolishment of slavery alone justifies the terrible loss of life that happened in the civil war. Add to that the preservation and security of the Union. These easily justify the reasons for the US to wage this war against internal rebels and enemies.

The confederates were essentially terrorists of their day. They made their demands outside of the very Constitution under which they agreed to be part of the Union, and when their demands were not met they used violence to get their way.

700,000 died during the Civil War, but millions of slaves lived out life sentences as slaves and were killed in the same manner someone would throw away a used piece of tin foil that is no longer useful???

Even if abolition of slavery was tied to economic and political reasons for the war, it was worth fighting against the slaveholders to end the greater amount of killing.

Any life lost in any war is horrible, but there is a good reason people are willing to give their lives in many wars. Ask any WWII veteran. No doubt the unpaid minutemen and militias which fought in the Revolution felt the loss of life was worth the reward. How do you think the black Union soldiers felt in the Civil War? They very obviously believed the war and the loss of life, including their own if need be, was justified because of the result that was sought.

You do share the same view as anti-American white nationalists on this issue, which is odd for someone who is married to a minority.