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Old 11-06-2009, 12:57 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,672,588 times
Reputation: 24590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
Have you ever been to Cuba? I have. And let me tell you: The Cuba that is portrayed by the American media is not the Cuba that I saw. That is not to say that it is a perfect system but it is certainly nothing like the biased media in this country make it out to be. If you have formed your opinion about Cuba from major American news outlets and publications you have not even been exposed to 10% of the truth.

Cuba is a place where a purley socialist system could have flourished, and it does in some aspects, but the embargo extinguished all hopes of that happening. This is not the thread to discuss Cuban-style communism, so I will not hijack it.
i know your claim about cuba not being so bad to be false. my wife is from puerto rico and she has friends who escaped cuba. my father's girlfriend lived in cuba for a period of time. it is actually worse than our media portrays because our media barely portrays anything of cuba. people dont work there because there is little benefit when the government "provides" everything for you. of course, without people working everyone is equally poor (except the political elite). its a very standard method to blame the failure on america's embargo and not the terrible communist system that breeds poverty. like i said before, communism doesnt work.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:46 PM
 
Location: NJ
23,534 posts, read 17,208,400 times
Reputation: 17561
Default Rx for disater

"Republicans of Chris Chritie's ilk have historically created more problems with poverty and have only served to make the rich richer, while driving more of the middle-class into the category of the working poor. "

This is a statement of philosophy, born of a belief steeped in prejudice that cannot be swayed. So skip a discussion here.


"Chris Christie needs to find a way to continue the desegregation process in New Jersey;"

What official process is that ?


he needs to find a way to grow the midle class and end the growing rate of poverty.

Think CC could use a little help with this one. Of course he could continue the policies of JC and PO...what policies would they be?
Might want to foster a better business environment in NJ to attract 'big business" to create jobs for people who will put forth an honest effort to improve their socio-economic status.

He needs to increase the effectiveness of affirmative action programs.

How would this be accomplished?
Can there be a better way than AA?

"Since racism and ethnocentrism is frequently an issue in the confrontation between the impoverished and affluent classes, he needs to do everything possible to mitigate its effects in our state."

Racism and ethocentrism are endemic. They are not frequently an issue, they just are. When they reach a legal threshold they are dealt with. Other than that everyone has to look into their own hearts and CC's responsibility ends at your chest.

Mayor Booker has started a wonderful program in Newark where contractors doing business with the city need to hire a certain amount minority city residents. Hopefully Christie can expand these programs that exist on a state level.

Any qualifications required to obtain a job?
Is this a handout?
Fine to set residential priorities for qualified people, pending ACLU review, if the practice is additive for the business and the customer. So many of these rules stack the deck to squash productivity.

"The end result of efforts like these is the craetion of a more humane society in New Jersey in closer parallel to our own democratic-humanitarian values, a society in which all citizens really would have a fairly equal opportunity to determine the course of their lives crippled from the outset by social forces beyond their control. "

This is begining to sound like a canned answer in a Miss America pagent.
This mantra is out of the 60s where responsibility of the individual is abdicated to environmental influences. No one is saddled with responsibility and commitment is a one way street. You might want to pray for world peace and equality as well as step up and take responsibility.

"This can be done. All it takes is commitment and money."

Who says so?
Commitment to who, by who and whose money should we spend ?
How much money is required to achieve a more humane society and whose democratic and humanitarian values are to be the reference point?

Throwing money at feel good social/education programs generally soothe someone's guilt, buys them good publicity, make local politicians and unions rich. Wasting limited financial resources denies people the benefit that money would bring if applied in a rational strategy instead of looking down the barrel of a racial or ethnocentric accusation.

We need to tax big corporations more heavily. Some of the money that many big corporations make by paying workers an unfair wage should be reinvested in programs that would allow those people to achieve the things that many CEO's in those corporations take for granted."

Where to begin????

Taxing big corporations have forced them out of the country and many jobs have been lost. Net gain following the poster's suggested big business tax strategy has resulted in a stabilizing the socio-economic gap while eliminating a source of funding for social programs as well as diminishing quality of life for the entire social spectrum.

Paying workers an unfair wage? Yep that is the reason so many folks leave one job to take a higher paying job.

"Big corporations" have training programs in addition to subsidizing employees education, health insurance and pensions. Got that one covered too.

Money put back into the company provides funds for shareholders and their pensions. Got that one covered as well.

Categorically everyone agrees to achieving the prosperity, "liberty and justice" for all that the poster desires. The arrival at that Nirvana is through many paths and philosophies, some of which are dead ends. Choose wisely.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:49 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,672,588 times
Reputation: 24590
i cant believe you took the time to go through that post and respond to the points. my head was exploding reading his post.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Newark, NJ
341 posts, read 678,614 times
Reputation: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
i know your claim about cuba not being so bad to be false. my wife is from puerto rico and she has friends who escaped cuba. my father's girlfriend lived in cuba for a period of time. it is actually worse than our media portrays because our media barely portrays anything of cuba. people dont work there because there is little benefit when the government "provides" everything for you. of course, without people working everyone is equally poor (except the political elite). its a very standard method to blame the failure on america's embargo and not the terrible communist system that breeds poverty. like i said before, communism doesnt work.
I do not know what your wife being Puerto Rican has to do with anything. I lived in Cuba and I can tell you people in Cuba do work. You seem like you get your information about Cuba from Fox News. (let me guess: the proverbial "why don't you go back to Cuba" statement is coming).

Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the U.S. Cuban citizens have a longer life expectancy. Cuba has a higher literacy rate. I am not advocating Cuban-style communism but socialized medicine does result in a healthier population.


Before I get too off topic, this is what we will see under Christie:

~higher poverty rates
~higher crime rates in cities
~cuts in NJ Kid Care
~lower graduation rates in public schools
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:58 PM
 
3,219 posts, read 6,579,439 times
Reputation: 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post

Chris Christie will not lower property taxes. Chris Christie will not be a friend to the middle-class. Chris Christie will be a friend to the rich, to industry, and to big business while ignoring the needs of the middle-class.
What crystal ball are you using? I'd like to borrow it to pick the winning lottery numbers, thanks.
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:28 PM
 
543 posts, read 1,455,700 times
Reputation: 243
Well one thing we know is he's not going to kiss the teacher's union and police union's *** and that's a good start. He may not be able to actually lower taxes, but maybe cap off or lower the increase every year as it's been steadily climbing so high as to be highway robbery.
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:08 PM
 
593 posts, read 1,660,260 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
I do not know what your wife being Puerto Rican has to do with anything. I lived in Cuba and I can tell you people in Cuba do work. You seem like you get your information about Cuba from Fox News. (let me guess: the proverbial "why don't you go back to Cuba" statement is coming).

Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the U.S. Cuban citizens have a longer life expectancy. Cuba has a higher literacy rate. I am not advocating Cuban-style communism but socialized medicine does result in a healthier population.


Before I get too off topic, this is what we will see under Christie:

~higher poverty rates
~higher crime rates in cities
~cuts in NJ Kid Care
~lower graduation rates in public schools
I agree with this right here. It makes me laugh how people actually think that voting for the different party actually means=CHANGE. Like for real, these people don't even know what they're talking about. Christie doesn't have a PLAN. Doesn't that bother anybody? All this cut taxes thing is actually bad too because they'll be lots of cuts affecting the tax payers. People don't want to pay taxes but the question is to you guys that are like Corzine this, Christie that is do you know where you're taxes are going towards because Christie sure as hell isn't going to cut the programs that affects the few number of people that he'll be working for. He's going to take away the programs and things that affects the posters on this board. A year from now, people will be hating Christie.
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:11 PM
 
593 posts, read 1,660,260 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by njchick View Post
Well one thing we know is he's not going to kiss the teacher's union and police union's *** and that's a good start. He may not be able to actually lower taxes, but maybe cap off or lower the increase every year as it's been steadily climbing so high as to be highway robbery.
So you don't want the kids to have a teacher or your town to have a police department?
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,514 posts, read 84,688,123 times
Reputation: 114966
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
there is no way of identifying who legitimately needs the help and would make positive use of it. the best way to ensure the growth of parasites is to support them financially.

i dont understand the line "We can feed them, and we should--not because of who they are, but because of who WE are." it sounds like some kind of do gooder bs that is pure silly idealism with no basis in reality. realistically, we need them to get a job and feed themselves.
It is do-gooder bs because we need some pure silly idealism. We feed them now, anyway, whether through the government or through charity. It's not realistic that we'd be able to get all those people to get a job and feed themselves. If you have the solution to bring that about, I'm sure somebody would like to hear it. If you starve people, they will steal to eat.

In the meantime, focus on the ones who are willing to work.
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Newark, NJ
341 posts, read 678,614 times
Reputation: 422
Chris Christie and republican politics are not going to solve the problems of New Jersey. For that matter, neither will the policies of the democrats. New Jersey will continue on a downward spiral until we fix the problems of our urban areas. And many seem to think that it is personal irresponsibility and the breakdown of the nuclear family unit that is causing the problems there. But there is another phenomenon that is at the root of the decline of NJ's urban areas.

Changes in our society and economy in this state have seemed to create the conditions for a permenant underclass here in NJ. The economy of the big cities was historically driven by heavy industry. In the last 3 decades, the shift to a postindustrial economy and the decentralization of population from NJ's cities has left in its wake a group, predominantly hispanic and black, within which poverty is debilitating and intractable.

In the shift to high technology and service occupations that characterize the postindustrial era, New Jersey's economy has come to rely less and less on industry. What the business sector wants now are highly trained white-collar specialists. This new employment demand has been well received in the suburbs where job applicants come from high schools with the latest equipment and have had teachers who have prepared them properly. In cities like Newark, Camden, and Paterson this new employment demand has been met with silence.

Fingerpointing, ethnocentrism, and the left vs. right idealogical battle are not going to solve the problems of our cities. New Jersey's taxes will continue to rise until we solve the problems of our cities. NJ cannot and will not succeed until its cities succeed. Ignoring the social problems in the cities, whatever their causes, is not going to make them go away, nor is it going to help the suburbs either.
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