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Old 07-16-2010, 10:45 PM
 
27 posts, read 30,819 times
Reputation: 17

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninasimonejr View Post
Hobokener, I admire your stand and wish you success. Even if you don't win you could have an impact and draw attention to the misuse of decoys. I actually support the new law, but not abuses of it.

You make me think of the Kleist story Michael Kohlhaas.
Michael Kohlhaas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I support the law as well since there are far too many drivers who don't yield to pedestrians and hit people, but abusing it or setting traps to increase revenue by taking innocent drivers' money is just wrong.

Read about Michael Kohlhaas. Very interesting, but I won't be starting an armed revolt or burning houses down like him... I'll be keeping any and all of my actions completely within legal limitations by going to my friends who are major network television reporters with this story, filing complaints with the state and DOT about this, and writing articles in local and regional papers. That's more my style...
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Weehawken
316 posts, read 699,939 times
Reputation: 63
I know. It's just that the determination to seek justice all the way even if it's not "cost-effective," to use the current mantra, is quite rare and precious. Just keep one foot on the ground. : )
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Ocean County, NJ
912 posts, read 1,330,959 times
Reputation: 442
For what it's worth, this new "Stop for Pedestrians" law is a disaster in Ocean County. I was speaking with a police chief the other day who told me traffic accidents are up 3x over last summer - mostly due to drivers slamming on brakes as pedestrians dart into the street with the idea that "I have a right to cross and you have to stop for me" while the car following rear-ends them.

Yesterday I witnessed a driver stop at a GREEN LIGHT in the middle of a major road to let someone cross at an intersection. Pedestrians now feel empowered to walk in the middle of the road with no consequences and people ARE going to get killed this summer. I've had a couple close calls myself - close calls that never would have happened before this ridiculous law was put into place. It's so bad several local mayors and police chiefs had a meeting with the DOT a couple weeks ago, but they were given the brush-off, from what I understand. I've already personally seen two car accidents and probably 30-40 close calls. People are walking out into the middle of traffic, and it's scary at this point. It's horrible that I, as a driver, am now forced to take my eyes OFF THE ROAD to see if someone is about to emerge from behind a telephone pole or on the far side of a 4-lane road to cross into the middle of the street. Pure chaos around here.

I don't know how this works out up north or inland, but in the Shore area it is a complete and utter disaster. I feel nervous as hell driving around here all the time. It's really a massive problem and I wish the law would be repealed.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:53 AM
 
432 posts, read 233,528 times
Reputation: 330
First off, why did the rules change? I remember being told as a kid to stop, look both ways and wait until there's no cars before crossing the street. now all of a sudden the pedestrian has the right of way and cars need to stop. At a stop sign or red light, it is different but if there are neither then the pedestrian needs to wait their turn and cross when it is safe.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Epping,NH
1,944 posts, read 3,038,130 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
now all of a sudden the pedestrian has the right of way
A pedestrian has had the Right of Way in Title 39 since they wrote them probably sixty years ago.

Quote:
39:4-36. a. The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except at crosswalks when the movement of traffic is being regulated by police officers or traffic control signals, or where otherwise regulated by municipal, county, or State regulation, and except where a pedestrian tunnel or overhead pedestrian crossing has been provided:
Not that it permits them to blindly walk in front of a vehicle giving that vehicle no chance to stop nor does it give them an absolute right. But the percentages are on their side.
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Old 07-17-2010, 09:50 AM
 
6,842 posts, read 4,922,511 times
Reputation: 9499
If he did cross when the light was red, then you are right. I fear though that it's just going to be your word against his, so I wish you luck. I feel many people take advantage of the new law and when on foot act like they can do anything they want. When I cross the street on foot I still wait for the light to turn green, and if no light, wait until there are no cars coming. I see people here just stepping into the street in front of cars that are less than 50 feet away.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:06 AM
 
Location: NJT 14C
429 posts, read 523,479 times
Reputation: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoboker View Post
I kept my composure and was as polite as can be and was one of only 3 people out of the 200+ people that wore a suit to court.
I find disturbing the fact that that can matter or that anyone thinks it should.

Anyway, pedestrians would always have the right of way if they're in the street. They might be crossing illegally, but you can't use that as an excuse to just keep driving towards them.

What wasn't clear in your explanation was whether the police officer gave you any kind of hand gesture as to whether you could pass through the light or not. If there's a police officer in the road, I slow down and come to a stop to get a gesture that it's okay to continue, whether the light is green or not.

As someone who pretty much daily walks streets all over New Jersey, it seems that drivers typically feel it's a pedestrian's responsibility to get out of their way if they do not want to be run over, whether the pedestrian is crossing the road in a legal way or not.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:12 AM
 
Location: NJT 14C
429 posts, read 523,479 times
Reputation: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoboker View Post
I don't believe that you are right about this. Well, you are correct about that aspect of the law, BUT it doesn't apply in this case since he was standing near the middle of the road as if he were directing traffic.
Cop's just standing in the middle of the road, but I've got a green light, so I can GO!!! lol
Quote:
per the law, the pedestrian is not supposed to be attempting to cross the road when they have a red
Right. They're not supposed to do that, so if they're attempting it, you can just keep driving. lol

Your view seems to be "As long as I'm otherwise operating my vehicle per the law, I can continue to do so, regardless of what other people are doing". So for example. Someone stops his car in the middle of a lane and just sits there. Well, he's not supposed to do that, right? So you can just keep driving in that lane, because normally that's what you'd be able to do. If you just keep driving in that lane and hit the car, you're not culpable because the other guy was doing something wrong by parking his car there.

"I've got to learn all of these rules AND pay attention to unusual, unexpected things that other people might do, too? Forget it."

LOL
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Old 07-17-2010, 02:35 PM
 
157 posts, read 343,100 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGambler View Post
For what it's worth, this new "Stop for Pedestrians" law is a disaster in Ocean County. I was speaking with a police chief the other day who told me traffic accidents are up 3x over last summer - mostly due to drivers slamming on brakes as pedestrians dart into the street with the idea that "I have a right to cross and you have to stop for me" while the car following rear-ends them.

Yesterday I witnessed a driver stop at a GREEN LIGHT in the middle of a major road to let someone cross at an intersection. Pedestrians now feel empowered to walk in the middle of the road with no consequences and people ARE going to get killed this summer. I've had a couple close calls myself - close calls that never would have happened before this ridiculous law was put into place. It's so bad several local mayors and police chiefs had a meeting with the DOT a couple weeks ago, but they were given the brush-off, from what I understand. I've already personally seen two car accidents and probably 30-40 close calls. People are walking out into the middle of traffic, and it's scary at this point. It's horrible that I, as a driver, am now forced to take my eyes OFF THE ROAD to see if someone is about to emerge from behind a telephone pole or on the far side of a 4-lane road to cross into the middle of the street. Pure chaos around here.

I don't know how this works out up north or inland, but in the Shore area it is a complete and utter disaster. I feel nervous as hell driving around here all the time. It's really a massive problem and I wish the law would be repealed.
Agree 100%. The number of idiots that just walk out into traffic is astounding.

I was driving down a downtown area when it was pitch black. Two pedestrians starting crossing in the middle of the road and I only noticed them when they were just about parallel to my car. A cop pulls me over and asks why I didn't stop. I told him I didn't want to jam on the brakes as I only noticed when they were alongside my car (though not in danger of getting hit). I also pointed out that they weren't crossing at a walkway, of which I am always conscious of looking for people. He let me go.
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Old 07-18-2010, 07:16 AM
 
Location: NJT 14C
429 posts, read 523,479 times
Reputation: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGambler View Post
For what it's worth, this new "Stop for Pedestrians" law is a disaster in Ocean County. I was speaking with a police chief the other day who told me traffic accidents are up 3x over last summer - mostly due to drivers slamming on brakes as pedestrians dart into the street with the idea that "I have a right to cross and you have to stop for me" while the car following rear-ends them.

Yesterday I witnessed a driver stop at a GREEN LIGHT in the middle of a major road to let someone cross at an intersection. Pedestrians now feel empowered to walk in the middle of the road with no consequences and people ARE going to get killed this summer. I've had a couple close calls myself - close calls that never would have happened before this ridiculous law was put into place. It's so bad several local mayors and police chiefs had a meeting with the DOT a couple weeks ago, but they were given the brush-off, from what I understand. I've already personally seen two car accidents and probably 30-40 close calls. People are walking out into the middle of traffic, and it's scary at this point. It's horrible that I, as a driver, am now forced to take my eyes OFF THE ROAD to see if someone is about to emerge from behind a telephone pole or on the far side of a 4-lane road to cross into the middle of the street. Pure chaos around here.

I don't know how this works out up north or inland, but in the Shore area it is a complete and utter disaster. I feel nervous as hell driving around here all the time. It's really a massive problem and I wish the law would be repealed.
If you rear end the driver in front of you because the driver in front slammed on the brakes, then you suck as a driver. Period. There is never any excuse to hit a car that you are following. If you do, you screwed up. If it happens a couple times, maybe you shouldn't be driving. One should always follow far enough behind so that no matter what the driver in front does, including slamming on their brakes, you won't hit them. That's the idea of safe following distances.

In most of Canada, when a pedestrian stands as if they want to cross the street, traffic comes to a stop to let them cross no matter where on the road it is. It blew my mind the first time I was in Canada. I was so used to trying to cross the street as a pedestrian in the States, where drivers seem to put points on your head should they get lucky enough to run you down, that I was perplexed why the cars were stopping for me.

I don't recall that happening in the larger cities, though, and I agree it might be impractical in the larger cities in New Jersey, but it would be an improvement on the current system of drivers either having blinders on or putting points on pedestrians' heads.

A bigger danger for pedestrians, though, is the bicyclists who seem to be unaware that they're supposed to ride with traffic, and obey the traffic laws, including traffic lights, rather than ride on the sidewalks. But the bicyclists here are probably rightly so scared of the wreckless, wanna-be-racecar-driver motorists that that is why they ride on the sidewalks in the first place.
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