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Old 01-15-2010, 01:32 PM
 
3,220 posts, read 4,060,688 times
Reputation: 1815

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Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
Sadly you may be right...no union should be this powerful
I think that Christie and THE PEOPLE (NJ residents) who voted for him are an even larger "union" in numbers alone than the NJEA.

Nobody is gonna "push" Christie around without a grand-ole fight.

njkate - Let's pray that the Christie administration is successful.

 
Old 01-15-2010, 01:39 PM
 
25 posts, read 35,101 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
also, a serious question - how do you implement merit pay? how on earth can you possibly compare a teacher in a bad school in newark to a teacher in a wealthy suburb like millburn?

hate to say it, but typical christie - big on rhetoric, light on details.
Why would you expect him to go into the nuts and bolts of it? He's going to delegate this to people with expertise, who will crunch the numbers and give him the data in report form. I don't care how he increases the efficiency or reduces the hemorrhaging of money into the public education system. I just want him to get it done. I don't care how, because that's what I hired HIM for.

Merit pay has been implemented in the private sector for CENTURIES now.
Simply because you ask the question doesn't mean *no one* can resolve it.
Business owners do it all the time. It's not an impossible task, and it IS necessary to make decisions about the relative contributions workers have made during the past year. Have you never been evaluated by your employer?

Surely the geniuses running the educational establishment will be able to figure it out, if the average small business owner can.

Paying people based on seniority and guranteeing them employment just keeps the best young people from entering the teaching profession and protects the incompetent and the burnt-out while giving our kids a less-than-optimal education. I'm still trying to figure out what a public school teacher has to do to get fired. Burn down the school?

Teachers should have to compete for jobs. And professionals worth their salt should not need a union.
 
Old 01-15-2010, 02:27 PM
 
1,845 posts, read 1,838,561 times
Reputation: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose View Post
Why would you expect him to go into the nuts and bolts of it? He's going to delegate this to people with expertise, who will crunch the numbers and give him the data in report form. I don't care how he increases the efficiency or reduces the hemorrhaging of money into the public education system. I just want him to get it done. I don't care how, because that's what I hired HIM for.

Merit pay has been implemented in the private sector for CENTURIES now.
Simply because you ask the question doesn't mean *no one* can resolve it.
Business owners do it all the time. It's not an impossible task, and it IS necessary to make decisions about the relative contributions workers have made during the past year. Have you never been evaluated by your employer?

Surely the geniuses running the educational establishment will be able to figure it out, if the average small business owner can.

Paying people based on seniority and guranteeing them employment just keeps the best young people from entering the teaching profession and protects the incompetent and the burnt-out while giving our kids a less-than-optimal education. I'm still trying to figure out what a public school teacher has to do to get fired. Burn down the school?

Teachers should have to compete for jobs. And professionals worth their salt should not need a union.

Who are these experts you speak of? Let me guess NCLB was put together by experts? Do you have any clue what you are talking about? Had teachers not been treated like crap for years unions would not be needed. The way this country works is you grab power when you can. Don't hate the player hate the game.
 
Old 01-15-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: NJ
11,698 posts, read 21,506,728 times
Reputation: 4487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose View Post
Why would you expect him to go into the nuts and bolts of it? He's going to delegate this to people with expertise, who will crunch the numbers and give him the data in report form. I don't care how he increases the efficiency or reduces the hemorrhaging of money into the public education system. I just want him to get it done. I don't care how, because that's what I hired HIM for.

Merit pay has been implemented in the private sector for CENTURIES now.
Simply because you ask the question doesn't mean *no one* can resolve it.
Business owners do it all the time. It's not an impossible task, and it IS necessary to make decisions about the relative contributions workers have made during the past year. Have you never been evaluated by your employer?

Surely the geniuses running the educational establishment will be able to figure it out, if the average small business owner can.

Paying people based on seniority and guranteeing them employment just keeps the best young people from entering the teaching profession and protects the incompetent and the burnt-out while giving our kids a less-than-optimal education. I'm still trying to figure out what a public school teacher has to do to get fired. Burn down the school?

Teachers should have to compete for jobs. And professionals worth their salt should not need a union.

i'm sorry you felt the need to rag on me. if you see all my responses you'll see i'm not against merit pay. i'm sorry you feel it's out of line for me to ask HOW it will be done. silly me.
 
Old 01-15-2010, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Montco PA
1,480 posts, read 2,484,665 times
Reputation: 677
Good luck to him!
 
Old 01-15-2010, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, NC
5,954 posts, read 6,891,497 times
Reputation: 27609
The state should have a set of standards where ALL of the teachers can be measured on the performance of the students. If they aren't cutting the minimum standards, they should be put into a developmental program. If that doesn't work, they've obviously picked the wrong profession and should be cut loose to pursue new opportunities.

I was appalled at seeing some of my kids teachers "go through the motions" late in their careers killing time until their big state pension kicked in!

It should be like the private sector... entry should be competitive without the union selection agenda (blocking career changers from going into teaching) and your performance measurements will let you compete to keep your job.
 
Old 01-15-2010, 05:08 PM
 
259 posts, read 470,329 times
Reputation: 56
if teachers didnt have a tenure, the education system across the entire US would be a revolving door. For every 1 bad teacher, there are countless good ones that actually give a damn. These teachers didnt get their teaching certificates from the back of a cereal box, they have BAs, double BAs, Masters degrees etc.

The real union Christie should be fighting in the public works union, the CWA. They have this state by the cohones.
 
Old 01-15-2010, 07:10 PM
 
1,845 posts, read 1,838,561 times
Reputation: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripes17 View Post
The state should have a set of standards where ALL of the teachers can be measured on the performance of the students. If they aren't cutting the minimum standards, they should be put into a developmental program. If that doesn't work, they've obviously picked the wrong profession and should be cut loose to pursue new opportunities.

I was appalled at seeing some of my kids teachers "go through the motions" late in their careers killing time until their big state pension kicked in!

It should be like the private sector... entry should be competitive without the union selection agenda (blocking career changers from going into teaching) and your performance measurements will let you compete to keep your job.

So you are saying all children have the same opportunity. You would agree with the idea that children in Camden should perform equal or better then say a child in Westfield.
Why is it that all 95% of passing schools are located in suburban towns? On the opposite end 95% of failing schools are located in urban towns. Please do explain why. I would love to hear your brillant answsers on why this is the case.
 
Old 01-15-2010, 07:16 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,510 posts, read 1,404,818 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose View Post
Teachers should have to compete for jobs. And professionals worth their salt should not need a union.
Nice in thoery but doesn't work regarding teaching job security......part of the reason teachers unions were formed was to protect themselves from nepotism.....too many teachers found themselves unemployed for no other reason than to make room for a principals relative who needed a teaching job......teachers compete for jobs when they apply for the job.....there are countless applicants and only a few vacancies each year. While I believe that many unions serve little or no purpose today teachers do ne some form of "representation"....aside from salary and health benifits the vast majority of what teachers seek is in the best interest of the students too.
 
Old 01-15-2010, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
3,302 posts, read 3,118,289 times
Reputation: 3457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubz View Post
if teachers didnt have a tenure, the education system across the entire US would be a revolving door. For every 1 bad teacher, there are countless good ones that actually give a damn. These teachers didnt get their teaching certificates from the back of a cereal box, they have BAs, double BAs, Masters degrees etc.

The real union Christie should be fighting in the public works union, the CWA. They have this state by the cohones.
Sorry, tenure is the grand guardian of mediocrity. Let the revolving door begin if that's the case. Union membership by teachers should be voluntary not mandatory. Teachers should be hired and fired just like any other service profession. Everything in life is about merit and performance, including the little 8 year old children they are teaching and measuring. Why is everyone so afraid of freedom and so in search of "protection"?
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