Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
first off the education system is not and should never be run like the private sector, ever. What so school board members can hire and fire at will. No tenure is job security and teacher FWIW are GROSSLY UNDERPAID.
Sorry, tenure is the grand guardian of mediocrity. Let the revolving door begin if that's the case. Union membership by teachers should be voluntary not mandatory. Teachers should be hired and fired just like any other service profession. Everything in life is about merit and performance, including the little 8 year old children they are teaching and measuring. Why is everyone so afraid of freedom and so in search of "protection"?
OK....lets see how much you know.....on what basis do you determine a bad teacher that needs to be fired ?
OK....lets see how much you know.....on what basis do you determine a bad teacher that needs to be fired ?
On the basis of an objective peer review committee using a combination of metrics and classroom observation that is done using random video capture. This is not rocket science or black ops. The only reason to make it seem impossible is to protect that which should have never been protected in the first place.
if teachers didnt have a tenure, the education system across the entire US would be a revolving door. For every 1 bad teacher, there are countless good ones that actually give a damn. These teachers didnt get their teaching certificates from the back of a cereal box, they have BAs, double BAs, Masters degrees etc.
The real union Christie should be fighting in the public works union, the CWA. They have this state by the cohones.
Other industries work just fine without tenure. What makes education different ?
To begin with, Union membership for teachers is optional, not mandatory. Upon hiring the teachers are presented with the opportunity to join the teachers union but are by no means forced or required. However with the strong support of the nea, becoming a member of the union is typically a plausible route.
On another note, I strongly agree in the existence of tenure and what it represents. Today the educational world has changed much since you or I were in school. Five year-olds are reading and taking tests of length that we took as high school students. The standards of learning have been raised and the students are rising to the bar. Likewise, standards have also been raised for teachers in the classroom. Tenure protects teachers who are doing their job. Since standards for teachers have been raised, their districts and administrators continually observe, supervise, and require professional development so that teachers of all ages can stay up with the times and learn new teaching techniques to meet the educational needs of their students. In the case where a teacher is completely not fulfilling their dutes as a teacher, a petition can be filed to revoke tenure.
Nevertheless many professions do have a "revolving door" with hiring and firing, but many of these jobs also do not require the years of education and ongoing professional development that teachers have achieved. For teachers to have a union and tenure to assist in job security is only fair, being that they are vastly underpaid. Teachers are not only acting as educators, but often as parents to those students who lack support at home. Teachers get paid for a distinct set of hours but often work way beyond that time, bringing their work home with them to prepare for the classroom and ensure a positive educational experience for their students. To be a teacher in New Jersey you have to been more qualified than many other states in the country.
My wife teaches kindergarten. After seven and a half years of college and post-graduate education, 2 bachelors degrees, a masters, $40,000 in student loans to pay back and four years of teaching, my wife has just cracked making 50 grand a year. People of other professions with equal or less credentials are often awarded salaries much higher than this.
With that it is clear, the role of a teacher goes beyond what you or I know. Until you walk in the shoes of a teacher who are you to judge how much union support, job security, or pay they should receive. Simply appreciate the good ones and their contribution to our children and our future.
OK....lets see how much you know.....on what basis do you determine a bad teacher that needs to be fired ?
You probably don't know how to determine whether an investment banker or programmer, or whatever is good at what they do -- it takes substantial qualifications to evaluate these employees. That doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't be done.
I find laughable the notion that teaching is uniquely difficult to appraise. It seems far more plausible to me that the unions negotiated sweet deals.
first off the education system is not and should never be run like the private sector, ever. What so school board members can hire and fire at will. No tenure is job security and teacher FWIW are GROSSLY UNDERPAID.
Oh, the education system should be run exactly like the private sector. Private schools operate like the private sector and do a flat out better job than public schools.
There is no job security for anybody, nor should there be for teachers. Tenure is an epic monstrosity. For too long, teachers have placed themselves on inviolate pedestals of their own construction. Teaching is nothing more than a service and needs to operate according to the laws of job performance and measurement that run corporations, sports teams, accountants, city councils, or the Red Cross. And teachers are not underpaid. In fact they are overpaid due to the aberration created by the functional closed shop union system (how many non-union teachers are there? None.) that protects teachers from competing with outsiders or each other. No, the whole system is ineffective, corrupt, and needs to be re-engineered from the outside.
You all want to treat teachers and other public employees like private sector employees? Fine. Pay them the same salaries that people in the private sector with comparable levels of education and experience get. Yes, the gap has narrowed over the past 25 years, but we ain't there yet. Also, ensure that all districts/departments have human resource departments that meet the needs of all employees, and not just those of administrators/directors, as is usually currently the case.
Merit pay? Fine. Make sure every public school in the state has a student population that is nearly equally diverse racially, socioeconomically, religiously, in terms of IQ, etc. Poof! The Camden and Paterson school districts are gone. Oh, wait. The Ridgewood and Livingston school districts are gone too. Every school district is... I don't know, maybe Woodbridge? Oh, and how is the evaluation system going to be checked for fairness and balance? And by whom?
[bababua].... Why is it that all 95% of passing schools are located in suburban towns? On the opposite end 95% of failing schools are located in urban towns. Please do explain why......
I might be due to a higher percentage of suburban parents who place a strong emphasis on education and academic discipline
On the basis of an objective peer review committee using a combination of metrics and classroom observation that is done using random video capture. This is not rocket science or black ops. The only reason to make it seem impossible is to protect that which should have never been protected in the first place.
First......all teachers get "peer reviews" each year performed by the principal. However,.....its your opinion that you can tell if a teacher is good or bad from watching a video ?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
