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By the way you do realize that what you consider filet mignon and chicken mcnuggets is really your opinion and is based on what you value and desire.
I'm saying that the value of filet mignon and McNuggets in the opinions of most people is reflected by the open market pricing of each item. That goes for the literal and figurative filet mignon and McNuggets.
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Originally Posted by CarolinaOnMyMind
Ofcourse, what you consider filet mignon someone else may consider dog doo doo and conversely what you consider chicken mcnuggets.
Of course. Everyone's tastes can be different. However, the market will usually reflect what the majority feels is more valuable or less valuable. That's why even if someone considers filet mignon to be "dog doo doo", it's that person's free choice, but it won't change what MOST people consider filet mignon to be, and filet mignon will still go for $35-$45 in a restaurant.
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Originally Posted by CarolinaOnMyMind
Have you ever considered the real price of the filet mignon and not just in terms of $, but the toll it takes on families, marriages, children?
Yes.
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Originally Posted by CarolinaOnMyMind
To me it seems that in our misguided desire to have the filet mignon life that our families and the things that really matter and have real value are viewed as chopped liver.
And it's good that you can choose what you feel is best for you. The fact remains that most people find that New Jersey is worth paying more for.
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Originally Posted by CarolinaOnMyMind
Its sad, but true that many Jerseyans sacrifice their own souls and their families at the altar of materialism and status.
It's not limited to New Jerseyans. In fact, living in NJ for many isn't about materialism; many of us here sacrifice the material gains we could have in a place like Carolina in order to enjoy some of the non-material advantages of living in NJ. The materialistic people who live in NJ are the ones who are angry about getting less home/property/material possession for their money.
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Originally Posted by CarolinaOnMyMind
The state is a rat's race where most everyone who wants to live here has to either out of necessity or for their own selfish insatiable drive to have the biggest house, biggest tv and a Beamer or Mercedes, put their career before their family.
Well, I want to live here, and I do live here, and I don't have a "selfish insatiable drive to have the biggest house, biggest tv and a Beamer or Mercedes". And I don't have those things. And I certainly don't put my career before my family.
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Originally Posted by CarolinaOnMyMind
Again it all comes down to each person's value system and what they consider to be "qualit o f life."
I can agree with that. But it seems you presume that "everyone who wants to live here has to either out of necessity or for their own selfish insatiable drive to have the biggest house, biggest tv and a Beamer or Mercedes, put their career before their family". Meanwhile, this is a national phenomenon, not a NJ one, and there are MANY New Jerseyans who are less concerned with material possessions than the people who leave this state, in anger, and march off to Carolina or Georgia or Tennessee so they can have the 5BR,3BA, fireplace on 1/2 acre that they couldn't have in NJ and were angry at NJ for not letting them have those things.
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Originally Posted by CarolinaOnMyMind
All I can see are alot of stressed out and angry people on the roads of this state.
I see a lot of stressed and angry people on the roads of all the states I've gone to for my job, and I've seen plenty of decent, normal people, also. NJ is no different from any other state that way, in my experience; if anything, NJ is better than some places I can think of.
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Originally Posted by CarolinaOnMyMind
By the way filet mignon is not the key to happiness. You can give a miserable person filet mignon and they will still be the same miserable person after having all the filet mignon they can fill their guts with. Its sad that people continue to equate happiness with things and the never ending pursuit of pleasure. This state has no soul and I'm getting out of here as soon as I can. Who's with me.
It depends on the person. Some people won't be happy with McNuggets. Some people prefer the McNuggets.
You seem to interpret "filet mignon" as expensive material possessions; I meant "filet mignon" to stand for a higher quality of life, overall, not translating into personal material possessions. To me, the "McNuggets" symbolize the individual material possessions.
What is it that you find to be 'better" about Carolina (or wherever you're heading to) than NJ? What is the "soul" of the place you want to go to that you feel NJ lacks???
I think NJ has plenty of "soul". I see it in a lot of the people who live and work here, I see it in the strong family values people tend to have in this state as opposed to places like the south where everyone gets knocked up in high school. I see it in the way communities provide great services to their residents and how our state values education and other things that enhance society while other states, like most in the south, devalue those things and foster a materialistic, HGTV granite counter and hardwood floors new house culture where how nice the homes and neighborhoods are is important but the quality of the school is unimportant.
So feel free to help me understand what the "soul" is that NJ lacks...
I'm saying that the value of filet mignon and McNuggets in the opinions of most people is reflected by the open market pricing of each item. That goes for the literal and figurative filet mignon and McNuggets.
Your analogy is flawed. Filet mignon might have a higher cost of production, but the supply curve is relatively flat. That is, if more people want it, the market can produce more, and the marginal cost of production doesn't change a whole lot.
Not true for housing -- you can't produce more low density housing in the same metropolitan area. Your supply curve eventually simply stops dead in its tracks and shoots to the heavens.
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I meant "filet mignon" to stand for a higher quality of life, overall, not translating into personal material possessions.
But that's the problem -- eventually, what happens is that lower density housing that is close to the city (and the good career opportunities that come with it) becomes prohibitively expensive (because you have a lot of $ chasing a scarce resource). So then you end up stuck in high density housing which is not generally what one associates with "higher quality of life".
Perhaps you didn't follow my post ? Again, the fact that one item commands higher price than another doesn't mean that "a majority" or "more" people want the more expensive item. We know with some certainty that those who fork out the higher amount for the luxury good do indeed prefer that. But we don't know that each and every one of those who choose the McNuggets don't prefer the McNuggets. You might believe that it's a minority who prefer the McNuggets and you may be correct in that example. But if we replace the filet with some rather icky, esoteric delicacy, then the majority will prefer the McNuggets even the delicacy will still sell at a high price (though to a small customer base).
You have it backwards. What makes a luxury item a "luxury" is the fact that supply is more scarce, and there is more demand than supply at lower prices, and this is what keeps the price high.
If McDonald's started offering filet mignon at Chicken McNugget prices, do you honestly think McNuggets would be more in demand than filet mignon?
If you replace the filet mignon then you change the whole premise and the price would reset according to the supply vs. demand of that particular item. Most icky, esoteric delicacies don't have a high demand, but they have an even smaller supply.
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Originally Posted by elflord1973
But that was exactly my point -- supply is limited, which is what pushes housing prices sky high. Sure, I'd live in an upscale town in a 600k house if I had 600k to spend on a house.
But for those who don't have infinite resources, it boils down to choosing something that offers value on a finite budget.
But limited supply only affects price in relation to demand. The supply is limited and the demand is greater so the price is pushed higher.
Your analogy is flawed. Filet mignon might have a higher cost of production, but the supply curve is relatively flat. That is, if more people want it, the market can produce more, and the marginal cost of production doesn't change a whole lot.
Not true for housing -- you can't produce more low density housing in the same metropolitan area. Your supply curve eventually simply stops dead in its tracks and shoots to the heavens.
No, you can't produce more filet mignon than there are cattle; filet mignon is limited at some point. When you kill the last steer, your supply curve stops dead in its tracks and shoots to the heavens.
By the same token, right now you can produce more low density housing in a metropolitan area like NJ. Even here in Bergen County there are pockets of undeveloped land and undeveloped lots - right on my street, in fact. Yes, it is limited, but we haven't developed every last available lot.
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Originally Posted by elflord1973
But that's the problem -- eventually, what happens is that lower density housing that is close to the city (and the good career opportunities that come with it) becomes prohibitively expensive (because you have a lot of $ chasing a scarce resource). So then you end up stuck in high density housing which is not generally what one associates with "higher quality of life".
Then the demand will decrease and the price will set accordingly. So what's the problem?
People aren't getting killed by taxes, they're choosing to stay and pay the taxes.
Mod cut: not necessary.
It's a bit hard to take you seriously, unless you're playing Devils Advocate, which I doubt. Sounds like Ivory tower pablum to me. Seniors who've long since paid off their homes have to struggle to even stay in them. Young couples, who have much to offer NJ, have to decide if they can afford to stay in the state.
It's a bit hard to take you seriously, unless you're playing Devils Advocate, which I doubt. Sounds like Ivory tower pablum to me. Seniors who've long since paid off their homes have to struggle to even stay in them. Young couples, who have much to offer NJ, have to decide if they can afford to stay in the state.
No, taxes aren't a problem.
For seniors, it's a problem. Seniors are the one group for whom it is a legitimate problem.
For young couples, not so much. Many decide to stay, those who don't, well that's their choice; most likely their priorities are such that this state wouldn't suit them anyway.
Young couples, families, anybody other than seniors have a freedom to make choices based on their priorities and incomes. And still, people choose to stay in this state.
You have it backwards. What makes a luxury item a "luxury" is the fact that supply is more scarce, and there is more demand than supply at lower prices, and this is what keeps the price high.
If McDonald's started offering filet mignon at Chicken McNugget prices, do you honestly think McNuggets would be more in demand than filet mignon?
If you replace the filet mignon then you change the whole premise and the price would reset according to the supply vs. demand of that particular item. Most icky, esoteric delicacies don't have a high demand, but they have an even smaller supply.
There's no such thing as a "smaller" supply than demand. In the supply/demand model, you have an equilibrium where the supply and demand curves meet. The icky delicacies have a very steep demand curve.
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But limited supply only affects price in relation to demand. The supply is limited and the demand is greater so the price is pushed higher.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but this sounds like nonsense. Price/demand is one curve (the "demand curve"), and price/supply is another curve (the "supply curve"). Limited supply shifts the supply curve (price in relation to supply), but not price in relation to demand. The result is that the equilibrium where the supply and demand curves intersect, is at both a higher price point and lower quantity.
No, you can't produce more filet mignon than there are cattle; filet mignon is limited at some point. When you kill the last steer, your supply curve stops dead in its tracks and shoots to the heavens.
By the same token, right now you can produce more low density housing in a metropolitan area like NJ. Even here in Bergen County there are pockets of undeveloped land and undeveloped lots - right on my street, in fact. Yes, it is limited, but we haven't developed every last available lot.
There are more steers alive (many which will end up being served alongside McNuggets) than there are vacant lots. Even those vacant lots are quite expensive -- again, because there is only so much land that is zoned for low density housing.
Makes no sense. According to stats, New Jersey is experiencing out-migration, especially of better educated people. Those fewer moving in are new immigrants - poorer. http://www.njbiz.com/article.asp?aID=80218 N.J. finishes fourth-worst in out-migration survey
House prices have been dropping in NJ and are still doing so. Plus foreclosures are up, so maybe people want to be here but can't actually afford it.
http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/eco...drop-in-nation New Jersey's median household income declined by $7,214 between 2006 and 2008, the largest dollar decrease in the nation, according to newly-released U.S. Census Bureau statistics
Finally, moving takes time. People don't like to turn their lives completely upside down, it's hard and scary, especially with families, kids, spouses who would both have to find new jobs. Most people will put up with a lot, hoping it will change, rather than make a wrenching move that they may find isn't ideal. Plus, in this economy, most people are holding on to the jobs they have, and staying near support systems, just in case.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/...8131261793148/
WASHINGTON, Dec. 25 (UPI) -- U.S. workers have been staying put during the recession, barred from moving by home ownership considerations or simple lack of money, demographers say.
None of this suggests that either people can afford NJ (for much longer certainly) or that they are staying put (if they are) because it is "worth it".
Thanks a lot BergenCountyJohnny for making this post.
I could not agree with you more. NJ is expensive because it is in demand.
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