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Wow...change the letters NJ to CT and you have the same issues.
No middle class, real estate out of control along with property taxes. Ghetto or (Mc)mansions.
I feel for the families who simply want dad home and not working 65 hours a week with a 1 hour commute each way just to pay the tax bill.
I moved back to CT about 11 years ago, and I've hung on, tried to be positive etc but now that I have children, house etc it's just not making sense. My wife and I make very good money and we are going backwards.
Summed up so well......and it just doesn't need to be that way. I daydream about moving back to one of the tier B cities I have lived in--I really do.
But if I am incredibly honest about it, I admit that I *do* worry about the economic opportunities if I raise my kids in other areas. I absolutely believe that the education in the northeast/midatlantic is the best and there is better access to the "dream" careers growing up so close to NY. Sometimes I remember what I got out of being raised here--an automatic "in" to jobs and opportunities. So in my more grandiose moments, I think I need to stick it out because in the end, my kids will be happy to have access to "the greatest city in the world" and all its related opportunities.....
AND YET...
When I am sane, which is about half the time ;-) I think--why not give our kids a happy stress-free childhood with outside playtime, schools that are less demanding and a dad they get to see....
It's certainly something to think about and as my kids are getting to an age where moving won't be an option, it's time for us to make a decision..... Right now, it looks like NJ will be it....but it is SUCH a hard call. If the financial situation were different here, then I think I could make the argument but it feel sometimes that we have a choice between giving our kids two types of inheritance. If we stay here, they will get an education (ie teach them how to fish)....and if we raise them in a different city they have a shot of at least getting something of $$ by way of inheritance! (weak joke but you get the point). I know other cities have good schools too, but I know first hand that they don't translate into the same opportunities that you have here....
I have my different reasons for pondering a move but I do not think its so bad overall. On a very moderate income we have a cute little house that will be big enough for a family of 4 (I think), in a nice, very safe little town and are comfortable.
I have my different reasons for pondering a move but I do not think its so bad overall. On a very moderate income we have a cute little house that will be enough for a family of 4 at least, in a nice, very safe little town and are comfortable.
that's great--that makes me feel less gloom and doom!!!
Wow...change the letters NJ to CT and you have the same issues.
No middle class, real estate out of control along with property taxes. Ghetto or (Mc)mansions.
I feel for the families who simply want dad home and not working 65 hours a week with a 1 hour commute each way just to pay the tax bill.
I moved back to CT about 11 years ago, and I've hung on, tried to be positive etc but now that I have children, house etc it's just not making sense. My wife and I make very good money and we are going backwards.
Since the late 90s when Nyc rebounded, NJ has pretty much been going down the tubes.
There are no middle class areas for the working man in any commutable are to NYC anymore. Its gotten so bad that people are driving 2 hours a day from PA to NYC... Taxes are aggravating the situation
Long story short, When NYC started to revitilize itself, it made NJ into a place where only the wealthy and welfare folk can afford to live.... There is no area for the average joe. not unless he bought a place here at least 10 years ago.
Real estate boom has made living in NJ completely unaffordable to the average man. once the folks who bought before the boom move out of their house, and out of the area, NJ is gonna suffer a complete meltdown imo.
I am mid 20s and so many people I know have left the state. So many people i know went to college out of state, then stayed there cause NJ was too expensive. If not out of state college, they went out of state on their own. Its just not reasonable to most people.
I am inclined to agree on all counts. My family relocated and we are living much better off of one income in TX than we ever did off two in NJ. Child-care and the killer NYC "commuter tax" is a huge drain on your income. It is truly hard to fathom until you do the math. Life in NJ was turning into a rat race for us. With two kids and two commutes, something had to give.
Summed up so well......and it just doesn't need to be that way. I daydream about moving back to one of the tier B cities I have lived in--I really do.
But if I am incredibly honest about it, I admit that I *do* worry about the economic opportunities if I raise my kids in other areas. I absolutely believe that the education in the northeast/midatlantic is the best and there is better access to the "dream" careers growing up so close to NY. Sometimes I remember what I got out of being raised here--an automatic "in" to jobs and opportunities. So in my more grandiose moments, I think I need to stick it out because in the end, my kids will be happy to have access to "the greatest city in the world" and all its related opportunities.....
AND YET...
When I am sane, which is about half the time ;-) I think--why not give our kids a happy stress-free childhood with outside playtime, schools that are less demanding and a dad they get to see....
It's certainly something to think about and as my kids are getting to an age where moving won't be an option, it's time for us to make a decision..... Right now, it looks like NJ will be it....but it is SUCH a hard call. If the financial situation were different here, then I think I could make the argument but it feel sometimes that we have a choice between giving our kids two types of inheritance. If we stay here, they will get an education (ie teach them how to fish)....and if we raise them in a different city they have a shot of at least getting something of $$ by way of inheritance! (weak joke but you get the point). I know other cities have good schools too, but I know first hand that they don't translate into the same opportunities that you have here....
Calgon take me away....
Bear
Well, for what it's worth I've had the same conversation with myself over and over again after living 7 years in the Southeast and the rest here in CT, and this is what I have come to for a conclusion.
I think children can have every bit as much of an academic opportunity in say NC as they can here...if not more. (Point in case: Yale has something like 17% of it's students actually being local.) I don't believe their education lie soley in the hands of the school system. Parents have a lot to do with it. Having the ability to spend time with my children teaching them things IMO goes beyond what a teacher can do.
My wife and I are going private no matter what - so who cares about the public school system in that scenario? Not me.
I have prospered both in the Northeast AND in the Southeast. If I'm being honest, I became a man in the Southeast and it made this guy into who he is today.
I learned to be "cultured" in the Northeast - I consider myself a sophisticated country boy. I like simple things, but I also appreciate arts etc.
In the end for me, it comes down to this:
"My kids will never remember how much I made, but they will never forget who I was."
I don't want that memory to be the guy who was in the office at 6:30am, got home at 7:30 eating dinner at 8:00pm by myself and passing out on the sofa at 9:30, stressed out beyond belief just getting by.
When I have time off, I see my family transform and that BOTHERS ME. It lets me know something is WRONG.
I have come to the place that I would rather be in a smaller home somewhere affordable with my wife at home without all the "city life" of NYC, working 8 hours a day with my family in tact. I'll vaca to NYC whenever I feel the urge.
But maybe I'm just stupid - fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidyankee764
LOL you said it before I could!
We are in a very similar place my friend. Very much so.
Well, for what it's worth I've had the same conversation with myself over and over again after living 7 years in the Southeast and the rest here in CT, and this is what I have come to for a conclusion.
I think children can have every bit as much of an academic opportunity in say NC as they can here...if not more. (Point in case: Yale has something like 17% of it's students actually being local.) I don't believe their education lie soley in the hands of the school system. Parents have a lot to do with it. Having the ability to spend time with my children teaching them things IMO goes beyond what a teacher can do.
My wife and I are going private no matter what - so who cares about the public school system in that scenario? Not me.
I have prospered both in the Northeast AND in the Southeast. If I'm being honest, I became a man in the Southeast and it made this guy into who he is today.
I learned to be "cultured" in the Northeast - I consider myself a sophisticated country boy. I like simple things, but I also appreciate arts etc.
In the end for me, it comes down to this:
"My kids will never remember how much I made, but they will never forget who I was."
I don't want that memory to be the guy who was in the office at 6:30am, got home at 7:30 eating dinner at 8:00pm by myself and passing out on the sofa at 9:30, stressed out beyond belief just getting by.
When I have time off, I see my family transform and that BOTHERS ME. It lets me know something is WRONG.
I have come to the place that I would rather be in a smaller home somewhere affordable with my wife at home without all the "city life" of NYC, working 8 hours a day with my family in tact. I'll vaca to NYC whenever I feel the urge.
But maybe I'm just stupid - fine.
We are in a very similar place my friend. Very much so.
I don't think you are stupid---not in the least. I think you are RIGHT...and I don't think this stuff is black and white. I think I have concluded the same as you--but circumstantially right now, this is not truly my call.....and my husband has not quite arrived at the same conclusion I have just yet.... and of course, I don't completely see it as black and white so I make do with where I am at in the process... In my family, I sometimes feel like the lone voice of reason when I suggest we return to the South--which we could do with my husband's career at any point if we chose to.... Right now, the only one chosing to in this household is ME.... :-)
FWIW, too, if it were up to me, and I could go ANYWHERE of all the cities I have lived--it would be Atlanta or Charlotte...... I loooove the Southeast.
BUT, full disclosure, while we did private school in GA, the truth is that it was not as good as the school system we are in right now. Not only have we been impressed with the school and what the kids are learning--but they place a large number of kids in prestigious schools. Not that I don't have doubts about THAT too--is it too competitive. BUT, when I list the two things that make me happy about living here, the school is definitely ONE--my family being nearby the other. Beyond that, I could easily leave it..... We were there in December and the fact people were running outside in the 50 degree weather just made me want to vomit with envy....
It if were cheaper to live here, then maybe it would not torture me so.....
they place a large number of kids in prestigious schools.
Just a warning - the districts with the really high number of alumni going to the Ivy League - a majority of those kids are Legacies and would get in no matter where they go to school.
Just part of the NJ "top tier town schools" sales pitch.
I don't think you are stupid---not in the least. I think you are RIGHT...and I don't think this stuff is black and white. I think I have concluded the same as you--but circumstantially right now, this is not truly my call.....and my husband has not quite arrived at the same conclusion I have just yet.... and of course, I don't completely see it as black and white so I make do with where I am at in the process... In my family, I sometimes feel like the lone voice of reason when I suggest we return to the South--which we could do with my husband's career at any point if we chose to.... Right now, the only one chosing to in this household is ME.... :-)
FWIW, too, if it were up to me, and I could go ANYWHERE of all the cities I have lived--it would be Atlanta or Charlotte...... I loooove the Southeast.
BUT, full disclosure, while we did private school in GA, the truth is that it was not as good as the school system we are in right now. Not only have we been impressed with the school and what the kids are learning--but they place a large number of kids in prestigious schools. Not that I don't have doubts about THAT too--is it too competitive. BUT, when I list the two things that make me happy about living here, the school is definitely ONE--my family being nearby the other. Beyond that, I could easily leave it..... We were there in December and the fact people were running outside in the 50 degree weather just made me want to vomit with envy....
It if were cheaper to live here, then maybe it would not torture me so.....
Thanks for that. *I* don't think I'm being stupid, but many of the "elite" around me do. Then again they are the ones dropping their kids off at daycare on their days off too.
I agree it's not black and white, no doubt and in your case it is different. My wife and I are in agreement that our pace and COL is just insane. She wants to stay home, and wants to see me not so beat down and I the same for her.
As far as ivy league...again, maybe some would think I'm being foolish, but I don't care. They teach the same things at a community college as they do at Yale aside from the pedigree paper you get in the end. The ivory towers IMO are so corrupt and are nothing more than planned springboards for the elite to get into their connected/planned positions afterward. (Bush, Clinton etc)
If my kid wants to be a contractor and no college - that's fine with me too. Not everyone IMO needs to have their PhD in physics. Whatever they choose, I will make sure they have the best go at it and plan smartly. IMO having two stable and present parents goes a long way toward them being "successful".
I think the lyrics to The Zac Brown Band's "Chicken Fried" just about says it all for me. Best of luck to you and your family!
Mod cut: coprygith violation
Last edited by Viralmd; 01-19-2010 at 05:58 AM..
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