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How about home values. I guess NJ should really fall in line with the rest of the country and somehow find a way to reduce the value of your prized nest eggs. That way more people could afford homes. "OHHH NOOO WE like our home values, that is if we own one,"
Well come on out to I80 some day, except for train/bus into NYC we have NO mass transit so it's no win win out here. The only people who benefit are urban dwellers....I wish we had it..the train fare would more then likely be less then the gas, registration & insurance I pay every year....
As for bolded....because I am weary of subsidizing ...NJ Transit is a business and should be run as such...
I agree Mrs Capatalism 2010. Why dont you tell me how many years the airlines have been held affloat by us taxpayers?a
How about home values. I guess NJ should really fall in line with the rest of the country and somehow find a way to reduce the value of your prized nest eggs. That way more people could afford homes. "OHHH NOOO WE like our home values, that is if we own one,"
...and exactly what does your point have to do with the outrageous real estate taxes?
It's hardly just the super wealthy any more. Middle class tax payers are tired of being milked by the unions. The guy making 80k and paying 12k property taxes is getting squeezed pretty badly.
On the balance, the producers are leaving. There is not a shortage today, but there is a trend and that trend is causing revenue problems for the state (no one left to confiscate goods from!)
Doctors ? If they have no-one to provide services to than government workers, and therefore no source of income besides tax dollars, then you still ultimately have government workers providing services to each other.
If the guy making 80K is being squeezed so badly, then why are so many people on this board complaining about public employees making these salaries?
I also find it hilarious that the people that seem to be complaining the loudest here are the people who seem to be far wealthier than the public employee. 20K in taxes? What's the house worth, 900K? Even two high-range public employee income households would unlikely be able to live in such a house, unless they are employed in very high ranking, high status positions (a police chief or a superintendent, perhaps).
You are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Why would anyone with an $80K job, quit that job to save $5K in taxes and take an unknown job (if and when you find one)for say, $50K. We aren't whining, we are stating fact, and we aren't going to leave just because the real estate taxes suck and you tell us to leave.
So let me get this straight...
Someone making $80K in NJ but paying $5k more to be here and make that $80K would be foolish to move someplace where he'd save that $5K but only make $50K. Well whaddya know, I AGREE with that.
And if that's the case, what's wrong with NJ? If in NJ you can make much more money, even WITH the higher taxes you are netting more money, then exactly how does NJ "suck"??? Or could that just be whining???
And when did I tell you or anyone to leave??? Now you're making more things up.
I don't tell anyone to leave unless they're telling me they WANT to leave. But, when people say they want to say but that the taxes and costs are unbearable, I do point out that if they were being honest they WOULD have left NJ. The fact that they are here proves that they CAN afford to stay but are just whining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkfrost
But we shouldn't just sit back and take it like sheep. Just about everyone here agrees that the taxes are too high, to the point of being criminal. The question is, what can we do about it? Any ideas? You seem to enjoy paying the taxes. Maybe some "tea party" action might be in order. What do you suggest? Other than telling people to leave?
If you want to tea party, go right ahead, see what that will accomplish. What's preventing you from doing it?
Try using your vote. Try being an American and following the democratic process that's been in place in NJ for over 200 years. A new governor was elected, that's how it works. If you don't like the people who are elected by the majority in NJ, maybe look for a place where you fit in with the majority. What do you want to do? Rebel? Overthrow the NJ government?
You're asking me what I want to do? I want to follow the democratic process. I am not the one who thinks taxes are outrageous. I don't want to rebel, overthrow the government, or throw a little girl's "tea party" like some people want to do.
I pay the taxes and I earn the dough. I realize I can save $5k in taxes by moving to East Bumbutt, Georgia or wherever in the deep south the hot new "utopia" is, and I realize I'll also take a much bigger pay cut. So it's a good deal.
Sure, I'd love to pay South Carolina taxes and earn a NJ salary. You know what else I'd like? A new 2010 Lexus for the price of a 1999 Hyundai. Or a McMansion on 3 acres for the price of a trailer in a trailer park. In fact, I'd love a good sushi dinner tonight for the price of a Big Mac value meal.
Yeah, there are plenty of great high benefit things I want for an unreasonably low price. But I also realize that sometimes you pay a little more and get better value.
What's a better value (using your example)???
Make $80K and pay $12K in taxes (which is more than I pay anyway), or...
make $50K and pay $6K in taxes???
hmmm.... tough one.....
But NJ sucks because here you get the higher salary and not the low cost of living of somwhere else. It's like logic and reason flew south for the winter.
If the guy making 80K is being squeezed so badly, then why are so many people on this board complaining about public employees making these salaries?
I also find it hilarious that the people that seem to be complaining the loudest here are the people who seem to be far wealthier than the public employee. 20K in taxes? What's the house worth, 900K? Even two high-range public employee income households would unlikely be able to live in such a house, unless they are employed in very high ranking, high status positions (a police chief or a superintendent, perhaps).
Very easy answer. See when teachers and other munipal employees were making 10 to 20k not soo long ago these people could laugh at them. Ohh the jokester they are and were. Teacher were the punch line to every poor joke. Now that teachers have pulled themselves up the American way (politically) they dont like it anymore. They prefer when teachers and other state employees were dirt poor. Well the joke is on them. You critics should have been around 15 years ago and see what you had to say about teachers making 20k if not less.
Someone making $80K in NJ but paying $5k more to be here and make that $80K would be foolish to move someplace where he'd save that $5K but only make $50K. Well whaddya know, I AGREE with that.
And if that's the case, what's wrong with NJ? If in NJ you can make much more money, even WITH the higher taxes you are netting more money, then exactly how does NJ "suck"??? Or could that just be whining???
And when did I tell you or anyone to leave??? Now you're making more things up.
I don't tell anyone to leave unless they're telling me they WANT to leave. But, when people say they want to say but that the taxes and costs are unbearable, I do point out that if they were being honest they WOULD have left NJ. The fact that they are here proves that they CAN afford to stay but are just whining.
If you want to tea party, go right ahead, see what that will accomplish. What's preventing you from doing it?
Try using your vote. Try being an American and following the democratic process that's been in place in NJ for over 200 years. A new governor was elected, that's how it works. If you don't like the people who are elected by the majority in NJ, maybe look for a place where you fit in with the majority. What do you want to do? Rebel? Overthrow the NJ government?
You're asking me what I want to do? I want to follow the democratic process. I am not the one who thinks taxes are outrageous. I don't want to rebel, overthrow the government, or throw a little girl's "tea party" like some people want to do.
I pay the taxes and I earn the dough. I realize I can save $5k in taxes by moving to East Bumbutt, Georgia or wherever in the deep south the hot new "utopia" is, and I realize I'll also take a much bigger pay cut. So it's a good deal.
Sure, I'd love to pay South Carolina taxes and earn a NJ salary. You know what else I'd like? A new 2010 Lexus for the price of a 1999 Hyundai. Or a McMansion on 3 acres for the price of a trailer in a trailer park. In fact, I'd love a good sushi dinner tonight for the price of a Big Mac value meal.
Yeah, there are plenty of great high benefit things I want for an unreasonably low price. But I also realize that sometimes you pay a little more and get better value.
What's a better value (using your example)???
Make $80K and pay $12K in taxes (which is more than I pay anyway), or...
make $50K and pay $6K in taxes???
hmmm.... tough one.....
But NJ sucks because here you get the higher salary and not the low cost of living of somwhere else. It's like logic and reason flew south for the winter.
I'm not arguing the math. I'm saying that the exhorbitant real estate taxes are way out of line. You are justifying and accepting the outrageous tax by saying it shouldn't matter because you make so much money.
It's like paying protection money to run your pizza place. You accept it as a cost of doing business. I don't accept it because its wrong. We should press the reset button because this computer (the State of NJ), is infested with tax virus'. We became a country because of outrageous taxation. Maybe it's time once again.
Well come on out to I80 some day, except for train/bus into NYC we have NO mass transit so it's no win win out here. The only people who benefit are urban dwellers....I wish we had it..the train fare would more then likely be less then the gas, registration & insurance I pay every year....
As for bolded....because I am weary of subsidizing ...NJ Transit is a business and should be run as such...
Thats not true , only 20% of the Rail network & 40% of the Bus Network serves Urban Areas , the Rest serves Suburban & Rural areas , in 20 years 90% of NJ will be served by Rail , so how about that eh, and what about the 3 million New Jerseyites that cram onto Buses and Rails across the state, what are you going to tell them?
I pay the taxes and I earn the dough. I realize I can save $5k in taxes by moving to East Bumbutt, Georgia or wherever in the deep south the hot new "utopia" is, and I realize I'll also take a much bigger pay cut. So it's a good deal.
Not every place that doesn't have outrageous property taxes is some horrible backwater. Take a look at what everyone else pays in property taxes some time.
You can get a decent place in Philly with property taxes around 5k (or for that matter almost anywhere besides the New York metro area).
BTW, it may surprised you to know that not everyone who moves is taking a pay cut. In any case, I don't think the fact that compensation is a little better in NJ is cause for complacency as far as the property tax situation is concerned.
How about home values. I guess NJ should really fall in line with the rest of the country and somehow find a way to reduce the value of your prized nest eggs. That way more people could afford homes. "OHHH NOOO WE like our home values, that is if we own one,"
No, you don't get it. Let me tell you what people in NJ want:
- High home values
- Top schools in the nation (helps home values stay high)
- Safest communities (lots of police) (also helps home values to have low crime)
- Higher salaries for comparable work in other parts of the country
- convenient location to beach, big cities, shopping, mountains, transportation, roads
- stay near family and friends
- garbage pickup at home instead of take your own garbage to the dump
- road work and maintenance
- parks and family places and activities
- great nightlife and dining options nearby
.........
- and NOT having to pay any more in taxes than someone making $45k a year and living in North Carolina or Georgia or Tennessee.
And if a governor can't come up with money to offset property taxes to make the overall tax burden lower for them, then he will either be:
- called a disappointment if he's a Republican, and given another 4 years to make it right, and when he doesn't "we can at least give him the boot afterwards" - after the second term, that is, and s/he will be remembered as a "disappointment" at worst because he couldn't overcome the Democrats stymying him with their evil Teacher and Police Union,
OR...
- called "slime" or some other epithets, derided and mocked, if he is a Democrat, and blamed for every problem from the deficit (which is always driven up more by Republicans anyway) to the "unbearable" taxes.
I guess people feel they are entitled to all the benefits of NJ for the price of Alabama, and if they don't get it, by golly, "there's nothing wrong with voicing our opinion that NJ sucks and is Commie Nanny State and is Doomed for eternity and going down the toilet for good and then talk about holding tea parties and rebellions until we get what we want!!!!!!! and it's not Jersey-bashing if we're doing it because of the unbearable taxes (that somehow we continue to bear paying despite their being 'unbearable')!!!!"
See? It's all so simple!
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