Sorry to say I voted for Christie (Trenton, Hopatcong: how much, schools) - Page 2 - City-Data Forum

zhelder · 03-07-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jknic

We won't have change until people finally start voting for third party candidates and force the corrupt two parties to start realizing that they don't have a monopoly anymore. Stop being afraid to vote thrid party, it is NOT a wasted vote. Vote for who you will think does best irregardless of how good of a change you think they have of winning, because if enough people think like that, then that person will have a good chance of winning.

I proudly voted for Chris Daggett and Ralf Nader in protest to the poor candidates offered by the corrupt two party system we currently have.

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you brought it up...

RIGHT ON!!!

I myself did indeed vote for a third-party candidate for governor (and not Chris Daggett either). And I have voted for third-party candidates multiple times before, including Ralph Nader. I did vote for Obama in 2008, and boy oh boy, up until this point, I have deeply regretted that decision. I'm not optimistic that my view is going to change either.

And you hit the nail on the head when you say that if everyone who thought about voting for a third-party candidate actually did it, these candidates would have a good chance of winning some elections.

elflord1973 · 03-07-2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhelder

A virtual elimination of discipline in many districts, especially less affluent ones, resulting in students and parents cursing you out, threatening you physically, etc. without consequence for students or parents.

What policies, specifically, have eliminated discipline ? It's news to me that Christie is for less discipline.

zhelder · 03-07-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elflord1973

What policies, specifically, have eliminated discipline ? It's news to me that Christie is for less discipline.

OK, I wasn't blaming Christie for lack of discipline in the schools. But a lot of what he's trying to do in addition to the lack of discipline in many districts may have some people thinking twice about starting or continuing a career in education.

Without writing a manifesto, here's what it comes down to: We've pretty much become a society that doesn't hold our children accountable at all. When problems with students are documented in schools, the state blames administrators, and even more so, teachers. Then the administrators blame the teachers. This is an especially big problem in less affluent districts, because then the state has something else to blame on the employees: low test scores.

The problem is, so many students these days come to school with so many problems, that in some cases it's almost impossible to teach. If teachers document the problems, they're blamed for having poor classroom management. If a principal has suspension numbers that are too high, well, he's/she's not controlling his/her employees or school environment properly.

So, because of all the politics, students are often allowed to do what they want. And the problems aren't as simple as chewing gum anymore. It's more like students telling you Mod cut and storming out of your class, then when you call their parents, having them do the same. Kids start fights all the time both inside and outside of classes. Nothing usually happens. Sometimes, they physically attack teachers (hasn't happened to me yet, except for one incident when I got shoved a bit). Nothing usually happens. Then, with the push for mainstreaming, a lot of students with severe problems are put into regular classrooms. Some of these students are severely emotionally disturbed. So a kid does something wrong. You try to talk to the kid. The kids screams in your face, throws over a desk, curses you out, slams another kid's head into a desk without provocation, and storms out of your room. You write it up. You're told by the principal you didn't properly "motivate" the kid. You ask how to motivate the kid. The principal tells you find a solution.

And so on and so on...

Now, when you consider some classes have 10 or 15 kids all with these problems (a lot of parents refuse to get their kids evaluated, after all), it makes teaching a very tough gig these days.

Viralmd · 03-07-2010, 06:21 PM

This is NOT an education/teacher thread. Off topic posts will be deleted.

billb7581 · 03-07-2010, 06:39 PM

I'm starting to realize gov't employees are just an extension of the welfare system. You couldn't do anything else so the gov't employs you. Some of you sound like lifers on the welfare system who are not going to getting a check.

BergenCountyJohnny · 03-07-2010, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billb7581

I'm starting to realize gov't employees are just an extension of the welfare system. You couldn't do anything else so the gov't employs you. Some of you sound like lifers on the welfare system who are not going to getting a check.

So everyone in the US Armed Forces is an extension of welfare. Alrighty then...

tahiti · 03-07-2010, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny

So everyone in the US Armed Forces is an extension of welfare. Alrighty then...

and so is Christie!

tahiti · 03-07-2010, 08:07 PM

what i don't get is why people don't give their leader TIME. you think it took 4 months to get in this mess? for god sakes, give your guy a chance! i say this on a local and national level. i STG, americans are so impatient.

"OMG! Christie hasn't fixed the 8 bazillion dollar debt we're in. He's been in office a WHOLE 6 WEEKS!!!!!!! I can't believe I voted for him!!!"

"OMG! Obama has not fixed ANYTHING! 2 wars, worst economy since the 30's, rampant unemployment! It took ~9 years to get like this but he hasn't fixed it in 14 MONTHS!!! Get him out of here!"

Makes me want to move to Canada.

gcctrumpeter · 03-07-2010, 08:30 PM

I admire the guy for trying to fix what's been broken for years. Plus, if you notice, I mentioned in my OP that I could have supported many of the things he's trying to do.

Think of it this way. You're the low guy on the totem pole at your company. Your old bosses spent too much, and your new one says you've got to cut back. If the new boss rams all of these changes down your throat, chances are you're going to look elsewhere for a job.

I know the guy isn't a fan of the union, and neither am I. The only reason I like tenure is because I've seen way too many administrators who would gladly get rid of great teachers to make room for their buddies. Yeah - cronyism in the schools - never thought that would happen...

However, Christie could have at least attempted to work with the districts and the union. I would wholeheartedly support him if he made an attempt. I know too many people losing jobs, losing their house - I'm not some rich, fat guy on the government dole trying to suck out whatever I can from the taxpayer. I gladly would go without a salary increase, or a tax on my benefits, or even work a couple more years before claiming my pension.

But just like my analogy, Christie comes barging in, making cuts all over the place with no regard to how things need to be run, with no attempt to work with the people that have to make the tough decisions. On top of that, I haven't seen much of an attempt to cut spending up top.

gcctrumpeter · 03-07-2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tahiti

what i don't get is why people don't give their leader TIME. you think it took 4 months to get in this mess? for god sakes, give your guy a chance! i say this on a local and national level. i STG, americans are so impatient.

"OMG! Christie hasn't fixed the 8 bazillion dollar debt we're in. He's been in office a WHOLE 6 WEEKS!!!!!!! I can't believe I voted for him!!!"

"OMG! Obama has not fixed ANYTHING! 2 wars, worst economy since the 30's, rampant unemployment! It took ~9 years to get like this but he hasn't fixed it in 14 MONTHS!!! Get him out of here!"

Makes me want to move to Canada.

I understand he needs time. He just needs to be careful to do it right. Alienate too many people, and he won't be able to get anything fixed.