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Old 03-26-2010, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Warren County and loving it!
5,044 posts, read 4,454,168 times
Reputation: 2474

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrmlyBklyn View Post
Sounds good to me - what does the rank & file say?
Not sure and it depends on which rank & file you talk to. There are quite a few different unions out there.

I left the state in 2006. For the last 6 years of my employ, we received 1% (approx) per year in raise, but was cut into two raises, 50% of it Jan 1, and the other half July 1. Our pension contributions were not what everyone thinks, free. I paid $270 (which is what it doubled to) every 2 weeks into my pension and we did have to contribute to health benefits as well (there was only one plan left that was free). No, I was not collecting a huge salary, $50k yr. Not complaining though. I'm of the belief that maybe the public sector needs to be run more like a business. If the private sector is taking freezes and such, so should the public.

There's AFSCME, CWA, Police and Fire, not to mention in the education sector, NJEA, and AFT.

I think it will really depend on which union the people are in how they will feel about it.

 
Old 03-26-2010, 11:07 AM
 
27 posts, read 24,663 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719 View Post
Not sure and it depends on which rank & file you talk to. There are quite a few different unions out there.

I left the state in 2006. For the last 6 years of my employ, we received 1% (approx) per year in raise, but was cut into two raises, 50% of it Jan 1, and the other half July 1. Our pension contributions were not what everyone thinks, free. I paid $270 (which is what it doubled to) every 2 weeks into my pension and we did have to contribute to health benefits as well (there was only one plan left that was free). No, I was not collecting a huge salary, $50k yr. Not complaining though. I'm of the belief that maybe the public sector needs to be run more like a business. If the private sector is taking freezes and such, so should the public.

There's AFSCME, CWA, Police and Fire, not to mention in the education sector, NJEA, and AFT.

I think it will really depend on which union the people are in how they will feel about it.
it's simple you cant slap pay freezes during already arbitrated contracts. Also, no one district recieves 4-5% raises a year. It's always stretched out over the life of the contract.
 
Old 03-26-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Weehawken, NJ
2,179 posts, read 4,658,771 times
Reputation: 1087
Quote:
Originally Posted by MudShovel View Post
NJ has the best educational system in the country, that fact has been proven every year for the past several years. Do you think parents in NJ are different than parents in other states? It's the teachers in NJ that are held to a high standard and are the difference. NJ has the highest standards to become a teacher, than any state.
I want to see facts (school rankings, how NJ fares against the rest of the country, certification process, etc...) from you.

Until then, you ballyhooing has zero merit.
 
Old 03-26-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: North Jersey
11,023 posts, read 15,718,985 times
Reputation: 7068
Quote:
Originally Posted by MudShovel View Post
So the public worker who easily took less pay for more stability in the public sector should be penalized. No, it's called career choices.

I love the fact that no one has brought up that over the last decade, federal and local government have been hiring more higher end workers (workers with degrees/mulitple degrees and credentials) and actually sub contracting out the low paying jobs to federal and state contractors.

If anyone thinks someone like a teacher who is barely cracking 51k a year after 4 years on the job with 3 degrees, is making too much money. Then I got news for you, you are probably not making enough money at your job. A lot these arguements I'm seeing are spite.

A lot of you crack jokes about teachers are just babysitters. Then if it's so easy, why aren;t any of you teachers?

NJ has the best educational system in the country, that fact has been proven every year for the past several years. Do you think parents in NJ are different than parents in other states? It's the teachers in NJ that are held to a high standard and are the difference. NJ has the highest standards to become a teacher, than any state.

If you think the educational system in NJ is broken, home school your kids. Guaranteed, your kids will be right back in school.
Thankfully none of mine are in school any longer but I'm still paying up the wazoo for schools

This argument is getting old & tired. I think many have stated it isn't the rank & file teachers..it's the bloated admin and that frankenstein called NJEA, the gaul of that president to think the fix would be to continue the surcharge tax on people making over $400k..everytime they open their mouth, the NJEA that is, they are doing teachers more harm then good with the public
 
Old 03-26-2010, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Forest Hills
555 posts, read 993,935 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by MudShovel View Post
So the public worker who easily took less pay for more stability in the public sector should be penalized. No, it's called career choices.

I love the fact that no one has brought up that over the last decade, federal and local government have been hiring more higher end workers (workers with degrees/mulitple degrees and credentials) and actually sub contracting out the low paying jobs to federal and state contractors.

If anyone thinks someone like a teacher who is barely cracking 51k a year after 4 years on the job with 3 degrees, is making too much money. Then I got news for you, you are probably not making enough money at your job. A lot these arguements I'm seeing are spite.

A lot of you crack jokes about teachers are just babysitters. Then if it's so easy, why aren;t any of you teachers?

NJ has the best educational system in the country, that fact has been proven every year for the past several years. Do you think parents in NJ are different than parents in other states? It's the teachers in NJ that are held to a high standard and are the difference. NJ has the highest standards to become a teacher, than any state.

If you think the educational system in NJ is broken, home school your kids. Guaranteed, your kids will be right back in school.
Actually parents in NJ ARE different than parents in other states... NJ has the most educated work force in the entire country... the average parents in NJ is more educated and likely makes more money then any other state in the country.

Do you really think teachers in NJ are better than teachers in every other state? They all go to the same set of colleges right? Moving to NJ simply enlightens them and makes them superior to their former collegiate counterparts? Ummm...

As for pay... again, all teaching numbers have to be adjusted for 1) the fact that they do NOT work 230 days a year (260 - 15 holidays - 15 vacation), they work closer to 190 (180 day school year + extra functions) and their extremely generous benefit package, including pension.

I know Engineers with Masters degrees that are 5 - 7 years out of college and are making $70ish grand... do you have any idea how hard it is to get a degree in engineering? The workload and classes that are required? $51k adjusted 20% for the fewer work days is $60k... add $100 a week that we're paying for medical benefits and they're up to $65k AND get a fully funded risk free pension... yeah, you could argue $51k for a teacher after 4 years is too much. Most liberal arts majors start in the low $30s and are up to maybe $40k in 4 years without the benefit package. Start comparing teachers to their liberal arts counter parts instead of Engineers, Doctors, and Lawyers and you'll realize how out of whack their total compensation package is.

Regardless... the fact is NJ spends $16B a year extra on education because we can not educate our students for the national per pupil average... that fact needs to change.
 
Old 03-26-2010, 12:12 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,580 posts, read 21,154,897 times
Reputation: 15428
At my wife's job they got the employees together and gave them a choice. Take a pay cut or some people would have to be fired. Every single person voted for the pay cut. It's unforunate the path the NJEA took.
 
Old 03-26-2010, 12:20 PM
 
Location: North Jersey
11,023 posts, read 15,718,985 times
Reputation: 7068
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
At my wife's job they got the employees together and gave them a choice. Take a pay cut or some people would have to be fired. Every single person voted for the pay cut. It's unforunate the path the NJEA took.
kudos to them That was really nice
 
Old 03-26-2010, 12:23 PM
 
27 posts, read 24,663 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
At my wife's job they got the employees together and gave them a choice. Take a pay cut or some people would have to be fired. Every single person voted for the pay cut. It's unforunate the path the NJEA took.

and what path is that? Because the NJEA has no governing control over local district unions. That is fact.
 
Old 03-26-2010, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Forest Hills
555 posts, read 993,935 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by MudShovel View Post
are you comparing a teacher to a liberal arts major? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

:breathe:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Teachers aren't babysitters. And yes i do know what it takes to be an engineer, on top my of my MA in finance, I've got a BA in Electric Engineering. I went to college for finance back in 97 while working as an electrician. I decided to stay in the electrical field and put myself through schooling to become a en electrical engineer. I now own and operate an electrical contracting business as well as an electrical engineering consutlant for 3 top architectural firms in this state.
Ummm... teachers go to Liberal Arts schools... they get Bachelor of Arts (BA) degrees... yeah, I'm making the comparison... is there some reason, in your mind, that I shouldn't?
 
Old 03-26-2010, 12:31 PM
 
27 posts, read 24,663 times
Reputation: 22
teachers get liberal arts degrees? Thats new. My wife had to partake in the educational certification program while majoring in another specific area like mathmatics and not liberal arts. She has a double BA and MA.

Most teachers aren't liberal arts majors.
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