Front Sight Fire Arms training

[Jo Bloe]

Thunder Ranch and Clint Smith are the only way to go.

Thunder Ranch® Oregon Director

[rscalzo]

Thunder Ranch is top notch but requires travel by air to make it practical. But none of the top sites are cheap.

[osborne1971]

I have had a membership for 6 yrs and never used it. I received a letter a few yrs ago that said because I was a member of the class action suite I could no longer use the facilities. Do you know if this is true? You seem to know more about the suite than anyone else I've come in contact with.

Originally Posted by rail

Not to speak for rscalzo, but I have taken classes there. I purchased a membership. And I followed the class action lawsuit very closely.

Is the training real? Yes. Did they deliver everything they promised to their members? No. Did they retroactively change the T&Cs on the memberships in ways that devalued the memberships? Yes. Did they develop the property as promised? No. Have any of the Platinum members built homes or even seen a deed for their home sites? Not as far as I know, no.

Did they stop paying on the settlement that they agreed to? Yes. Did they send out letters and postcards dissing the judge and the court? Yes. Did they go through multiple sets of lawyers, with credible rumors that some of them did not get paid? Yes. Did they have liens filed against them by construction contractors for non payment? Yes.

I'll give you some examples: when I bought my membership, the submachine classes all included ammunition. Now you have to buy the ammo from Front Sight, at whatever price they name, in order to take the class that your membership is supposed to cover. When I bought my membership, they announced plans to start defensive driving courses "by next fall", which Gold and Platinum memberships were to include. Nine years later, those still aren't offered. When I bought in, they promised that memberships would be transferable in the future. When that time came BUT NOT BEFORE, they announced that there was a 15% fee, payable by the seller in advance irrespective of whether the membership sold. They promised certain members use of a gun locker in the armory, which hasn't been built nine years later. They promised an airstrip, so the private pilots from SoCal could drop in without the long, tedious drive, and it's not been built. The membership included the night classes, which used to be offered at least monthly in the summer, just as daytime classes were the rest of the year. Then they cancelled all of those except the July 4th weekend classes.

They play nasty. There may be some decent training there, but I don't trust Piazza at all any more.

There are also some serious barriers to getting the full value out of the membership. The location is an issue for many people: how often are they likely to go to the Vegas area for the training? The dominance of weekend classes, combined with higher hotel rates in Vegas on weekends, is another problem. The requirement to purchase ammo from Front Sight at whatever price they name is also a problem.

And as for losing the class action case, no, they didn't lose. In fact, they agreed to a settlement. Then they didn't honor the terms of it. They got so far out of compliance with the settlement that a US district judge placed them in receivership on the court's own motion.

These are not people to be trusted.

[rail]

Originally Posted by osborne1971

I have had a membership for 6 yrs and never used it. I received a letter a few yrs ago that said because I was a member of the class action suite I could no longer use the facilities. Do you know if this is true? You seem to know more about the suite than anyone else I've come in contact with.

Sorry for taking so long to respond. The current settlement does allow Front Sight to bar class members from their facilities. The class is opt-in, so you're only covered by that if you filed a claim and are (still!) waiting for payment. I know that some class members did NOT get letters barring them. You could always try to go back and see what Front Sight says. If their IT systems are as bad as I expect, they may not notice.

There's some complicated history here: there were at least two settlements put before the court. In the one that was finally approved, class members were allowed to keep using their memberships until Front Sight fully paid off their claims. Front Sight violated those terms, banning some class members from the facility before they were paid. When the case was reopened due to Front Sight's non-payment, Front Sight negotiated to allow it to ban class members (which it had already done). In return, the class members now get 5% interest on their money. Before, only Platinum members (those with rights to home sites) were to get interest.

(The first settlement, which the court did not approve, left all class members keeping their memberships, period, even after Front Sight paid out. It's a complicated history.)

[rscalzo]

Considering this is a NJ forum, SIG would be much closer. they are expanding the academy and recently added their 600 yard rifle range to the others. I run into some NJ residents up here from time to time.

Down side is they aren't the cheapest by far.