Little Bear Fire (Alamogordo, Ruidoso, Capitan: homes, campers, closing)

[rruff]

Originally Posted by joqua

Seems to me a contradiction in terms when the Forest Service can hesitate to quench a naturally caused fire in a "dead out" manner rather than simply trying to encircle it with a "fire line" that has minimal chances of holding in high winds - atop a mountain peak! That's what's meant when they use the words "containment/contained." I want to hear that the fire is OUT - DEAD OUT!

When I first heard about the fire (Tues) and it was reported as no big deal, I thought "they better have that totally out by the weekend because high winds are predicted". Seriously... high winds (40+ mph gusts) were predicted several days ahead of time, so it isn't like a freak thing happened.

Luckily the wind was out of the SW rather than the NW... else Ruidoso probably would have been lost... as in charred to a cinder. Not lucky for people who live north of town, though. The place I used to live in, a couple miles north of the Alto PO was in the path.

[rruff]

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

If they had 20 million gallons of water available and deployable, naturally, they'd use them.

By Fri morning (4 days after it started) the fire was only 4 acres in size. At any time til then it could have been put out with a plane or a couple trips with a copter... at most. I suppose these things are hard to come by, but they had 4 days to acquire one. The threat was apparently grossly underestimated... and I'm having a hard time imagining how/why.

[GregW]

jazzlover said it all. Keep the "natural" fires out of a western pine forest and when it burns, instead of having a ground, brush, grass fire, you get a crown fire holocaust. In many ways the Smokey Bear Campaign did more to promote huge fires than keep the forest healthy.

I believe we should have an active, as in spend money, forest management operation that will return the woods to their “natural” state. Once a forest is burned over it can be replanted or the natural succession be allowed to work. The latter takes much longer to produce forest products that can be sold. Interestingly a contrasting example is the blast zone to the North of Mount Saint Helens in Washington. Now thirty so years after the eruption that left nothing but volcanic dust the place is wall to wall trees.

It will take a long time to reforest the Whitewater and Little Bear fire areas but it will happen. Maybe we will realize placing houses in a tinder dry forest is just about as wise as putting them on the flood plain of a flashy river. I have no objection but do not expect me to help you with your insurance.

My sincere condolences to the injured in all these fires.

[songinthewind7]

It didn't make it to Capitan but we have a lot of smoke. Our internet and phones have been down and we just got internet back.

I agree with Joqua in that the fire should have been called Big Bear. I too, don't understand why they didn't make sure the fire was completely out before the winds picked up and it got out of control.

rruff - you didn't have to evacuate?

[N8!]

Guy I work with has a couple of family members who lost their houses over the weekend. They're working in AZ and didnt have a chance to get anything out.

[mortimer]

Originally Posted by joqua

Ruidoso has seen several devastating wildfires in the past decade,
but the one now burning up the White Mtn. Wilderness and the
area of Lincoln Co. just outside the N and E Ruidoso village limits ...

Originally Posted by rruff

Luckily the wind was out of the SW rather than the NW...
else Ruidoso probably would have been lost... as in charred to a cinder.

Old burn areas work to protect a place from the next fire.
I'm not familar with the ground there, but wouldn't the stuff
mentioned by joqua tend to be a helpful thing for Ruidoso?

I'm also with Zoidberg on this:

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

I can't imagine they had legions of firefighters sitting around playing Xbox while
this fire was supposed to burn itself out; those guys were probably hard at work
on that Baldy-Whitewater thing or other fires deemed to be bigger threats ...

Those firefighters are really tough.

Moving all the assets they have deployed at B-W to the White Mtn area has to be logistically difficult.

If there were local Ruidoso firefighters around, I can't imagine that they weren't deployed to B-W.
There must be an intense concentration of firefighters around Mogollon. They really pulled through on that.

I hope they can pull through on this Little Bear fire also. Again, those firefighters are really tough.
If I lived there, I'd be making them sandwiches. They probably burn 10,000 calories per day!!

[DOUBLE H]

Originally Posted by mortimer;

I'm also with Zoidberg on this:
Those firefighters are really tough.

Moving all the assets they have deployed at B-W to the White Mtn area has to be logistically difficult.

If there were local Ruidoso firefighters around, I can't imagine that they weren't deployed to B-W.
There must be an intense concentration of firefighters around Mogollon. They really pulled through on that.

I hope they can pull through on this Little Bear fire also. Again, those firefighters are really tough.
If I lived there, I'd be making them sandwiches. They probably burn 10,000 calories per day!!

Absolutely!!

[rruff]

Originally Posted by songinthewind7

rruff - you didn't have to evacuate?

No... we moved from the Enchanted Forest area to Ruidoso a couple months ago.

[rruff]

Originally Posted by mortimer

Old burn areas work to protect a place from the next fire.
I'm not familar with the ground there, but wouldn't the stuff
mentioned by joqua tend to be a helpful thing for Ruidoso?

There weren't any old burn areas that slowed it down... and I don't think there are any significant ones between the fire and Ruidoso that would help much either.

Sierra Blanca is the high point that all the valleys and ridges on the west side of town connect to. The wind would only need to blow in the right direction and be strong enough. They bulldozed some breaks up at the top of Perk Canyon yesterday just in case the wind shifted... but considering how fast the fire grew on Fri, I don't think anything would stop a strong NW wind.

Just looked at the latest perimeter map, and the fire is still inching closer to our property on Vista Rio Bonito... only ~1500ft away. I really hope it doesn't get burnt.

[joqua]

Originally Posted by Zoidberg

Doesn't sound like you understand how forest fires are fought.

And you have not a clue who you're replying to!

I know the forests on the mountain as well as anyone, having skied and mountain biked and hiked virtually every trail in them for most of my long life. (PS - forgot horesback! The first time I made it to the top of Sierra Blanca I was 10-12 years old and on the back of a horse. Much later made it there on a mountain bike.)

For your information, there was AMPLE water available from ponds at the Ski Apache base area just a couple of miles from the fire origin that could easily have been bucketed by helicopter to the small fire site in order to totally quench it. Or a load of retardant would have been effective as well. There are contradictory stories now about what the Forest Service did and did not do to suppress the origin for the four days from Friday (when first noticed) until Tuesday when they actually sent people to the site, and then between Tuesday and Thursday when it blew up.

In the 15 years since my retirement, living full time in Ruidoso, I've been eye witness to NUMEROUS wildfires. Two huge ones last year in the area.