Cumbres & Toltec railroad (Chama: houses, employment, subdivisions)

[mortimer]

GregW mentioned:

> ... the Cumbres & Toltec railroad.

I love that train. For those that don't know, it's part of what was once
one line that also went through Durango and Silverton which also survives.

GregW might want to enquire about employment since those trains
and lines probably need a bunch of maintenance that require someone
who knows about working with large moving metal parts - like a ship.

I'd like living in Chama or Antonito (CO).

The Official Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad Web Site

Home Page - Durango&Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad in Durango, Colorado

For those that have ridden on the train; How Do You Ride?

There are three options:

(1) Ride from Chama to the middle, have lunch and ride back (did that)
(2) Ride from Antonito to the middle, have lunch and ride back (did that)
(3) Ride the whole way and take a bus back.

For me, if I'm paying money to ride the train, I'm not doing #3.

I found that ride #2 is not as good as ride #1, but both take you back
over 100 years to scenery that has not changed since then.

Comparing the Cumbres & Toltec to the Durango & Silverton, the C&T
is ten times better. Much of the D&S ride is spent between rocks that
zoom past a few feet away from the windows. The C&T mostly spends
its time overlooking expansive vistas on both sides of the train and has
rock walls only on one side of the train or another.

Both trains feature the back open car where you can get some coal soot
in your hair. When I rode the C&T, they make you sit in a specified seat
for a passenger count and after that, it is open seating. As I recall, you
had to sit next to the same people on the D&S train which might not be
a good thing.

[GregW]

Mortimer - Thanks a bunch for making next summer seem even further away. Anne & I would probably go all the way to Antonio, stay over and take the train back the next day. Maybe than can use a good mechanic, machinist and welder. Provide a place for me to sleep and cook and I wouldn't even want much money.

BTY this issue of TRAINS magazine has a feature article on the C&T snow clearing operations they used to do.

[catman]

Mortimer: I rode the Durango & Silverton many years ago, in the open car, and found it absolutely spellbinding. I agree that part of the time, there is a rock wall next to one side, but that didn't take anything away from the experience IMO. I did inhale a lot of smoke, but it was worth it. I don't recall anything about being stuck in a particular location inside the car. Perhaps they have changed that.

I want to ride the Cumbres & Toltec too! Chama is a pretty little town, although I didn't spend much time there. The winters are a bit nippy, but it is in a gorgeous location.

[jazzlover]

I agree about the C&TS. It is one of the most scenicly splendid and historically significant train rides in the United States, if not the world. I've been going to that country for over 40 years (clear back to when what is now the C&TS was an operating freight railroad), and I never tire of the train ride.

The employment situation on the C&TS is a different matter. Many of the jobs are seasonal, and most are filled by local residents. There is not much turnover. Many of the people I know who work there have been working on the railroad for 25-30 years or more.

I like the D&S, too, but it is much more "structured" of a ride, and is much more impersonal than the C&TS. Plus, you have to ride through 15 miles of rural suburban subdivisions before you get to the scenic part of the trip. (Thank you, developers, for ruining those 15 miles!)

[catman]

I am sorry to hear about the D & S RR. I rode it in 1982, and it wasn't built up around there like that. I liked Durango the way it was.

[GregW]

Catman - I liked Londonderry the way it was. I like it less now because of the development and traffic. I still want to sell out and move to MN.

[mortimer]

jazzlover noted:

> ... D&S ... have to ride through 15 miles of rural suburban subdivisions
> before you get to the scenic part of the trip. (Thank you, developers,
> for ruining those 15 miles!)

catman reported:

> ... D & S RR. I rode it in 1982,

I rode it in 1989. As I recall, there were lots of houses out there for the
portion before it plunged into the Animas river canyon.

It's not the "developers," but rather people making babies, immigrating
from other places, etc. The land was private and even if not developed,
people would have filled it up sooner or later.

Wherever you live used to be someone's peaceful, natural place at some
time in the past.

[catman]

mortimer: You're right, of course. The developers, hated though they are by some, are simply supplying a need which exists. All those people have to live somewhere. Population growth is the biggest problem the world has, IMO. All the others flow from it. When people are jammed together, all sorts of badness ensues. I'm glad I got to see that area before it got suburbanized. Sad.

[mortimer]

Yeah. I'm glad I got to see (still do) the West Mesa at the edge of the sky with only Mount Taylor and some other assorted mesas sticking out above it. Someday it will probably be filled with houses (but they'll be really really small).