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Old 07-27-2017, 09:38 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,210 posts, read 107,904,670 times
Reputation: 116153

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
An added advantage of keeping an optimally-designed cistern system is your ability to order truckloads of water during high drought periods during early spring, when temperatures climb but rain stays away.
Where do the trucks bring the water from?
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Abu Al-Qurq
3,689 posts, read 9,184,329 times
Reputation: 2991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Where do the trucks bring the water from?
Their problem, not mine.
Presumably a municipality or water authority that allows the sale and transport of its water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Of course. Ultimately, the SW will have to be abandoned.
Simply asinine. Using the same logic, Phoenix could never have been populated.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Las Cruces
104 posts, read 111,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Of course. Ultimately, the SW will have to be abandoned. Cisterns are for the intermediate period, when there is still some rain or snow. But things may change faster than people expect; this remains to be seen.
Huh?

I see a lot of water being wasted here and unfortunately a lot of people won't change their habits until we get to a point where severe water rationing has to be implemented (hopefully many years off).

There are so many little things that everyone can do to reduce the amount of water that is used/wasted.

The more people become proactive and start saving as much water as they can (this goes for companies also), the longer we'll be able to put off water rationing.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Silver Hill, Albuquerque
1,043 posts, read 1,452,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Of course. Ultimately, the SW will have to be abandoned. Cisterns are for the intermediate period, when there is still some rain or snow. But things may change faster than people expect; this remains to be seen.
This is unfounded alarmism, pure and simple. The Southwest has never been completely abandoned over more than 10,000 years of climate fluctuation, including droughts far, far stronger than anything we've seen today. There are millions if not billions of people in today's world living in conditions that are far dryer and warmer than the Southwest is today or will be in the foreseeable future.

Also, while I'm not a climate scientist I don't remember seeing any climate research that suggests it will one day cease to rain or even snow in the SW. Even under the worst projections, it is a matter of less snow falling at higher altitudes and melting out quicker, or rain falling in violent summer storms rather than gradual, gentler year-round precipitation. But no one - and I mean no one - is saying the rain will somehow completely cease to fall.

It's a question of reducing water consumption, conserving existing water resources, and finding new ways to efficiently and intelligently use a resource that we expect to have less of in the future. But we have barely started to do that...a quick look at how traditional people live in truly arid environments throughout the world demonstrates that there are many untapped approaches to try.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Silver Hill, Albuquerque
1,043 posts, read 1,452,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMTransplant View Post
Huh?

I see a lot of water being wasted here and unfortunately a lot of people won't change their habits until we get to a point where severe water rationing has to be implemented (hopefully many years off).
While this is true, we are already making good progress. According to this blog post from UNM water-use researcher and author John Fleck, per capita water use in Albuquerque has declined 48 percent since 1995. Anecdotally, there are a lot fewer grass lawns and (even more so) pointlessly grass-covered, mechanically watered parking lot margins, etc. than there were when I was growing up here in the 80s and 90s.

As for the larger question of Southwestern land use, Fleck's blog is full of stories demonstrating that, while we are still facing huge challenges water-wise, there has been a real push towards reduced water use and intelligent water management in recent years across the western US.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico
356 posts, read 503,442 times
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Flecks's blog looks to be fascinating. Bookmarked it. Thanks for the link.
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Silver Hill, Albuquerque
1,043 posts, read 1,452,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Bill View Post
Flecks's blog looks to be fascinating. Bookmarked it. Thanks for the link.
It's interesting stuff. By his own admission, he set out to write about the dire state of water in the Southwest and our cut-throat, drought-ridden future but his research gradually led him to completely change that viewpoint and focus on the many ways in which people are increasingly cooperating to manage water more intelligently. Encouraging.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:15 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,210 posts, read 107,904,670 times
Reputation: 116153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Hibs View Post
This is unfounded alarmism, pure and simple. The Southwest has never been completely abandoned over more than 10,000 years of climate fluctuation, including droughts far, far stronger than anything we've seen today. There are millions if not billions of people in today's world living in conditions that are far dryer and warmer than the Southwest is today or will be in the foreseeable future.

Also, while I'm not a climate scientist I don't remember seeing any climate research that suggests it will one day cease to rain or even snow in the SW. Even under the worst projections, it is a matter of less snow falling at higher altitudes and melting out quicker, or rain falling in violent summer storms rather than gradual, gentler year-round precipitation. But no one - and I mean no one - is saying the rain will somehow completely cease to fall.

It's a question of reducing water consumption, conserving existing water resources, and finding new ways to efficiently and intelligently use a resource that we expect to have less of in the future. But we have barely started to do that...a quick look at how traditional people live in truly arid environments throughout the world demonstrates that there are many untapped approaches to try.
Climate experts who specialize in the Southwest have been lecturing around the state about this issue. The Sonoran desert is moving north; desertification is in progress. Those fires that burn not only desert scrub, which doesn't get replaced, and forestland that doesn't grow back, are part of the process. We're watching it happen. Most of us simply aren't cognizant of the implications of what we're seeing.
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:10 AM
 
8,228 posts, read 14,219,158 times
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https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...-in-new-mexico
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Silver Hill, Albuquerque
1,043 posts, read 1,452,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Climate experts who specialize in the Southwest have been lecturing around the state about this issue. The Sonoran desert is moving north; desertification is in progress. Those fires that burn not only desert scrub, which doesn't get replaced, and forestland that doesn't grow back, are part of the process. We're watching it happen. Most of us simply aren't cognizant of the implications of what we're seeing.
I am in no way, shape or form denying climate change...quite the opposite, in fact. And I am very cognizant of the implications. I expect they'll actually be harsher and more dramatic than many folks are expecting.

What I was responding to was your assertion that all of this means the southwest will somehow become unfit for human habitation and have to be abandoned. This is never going to happen. People are incredibly adaptable, and find ways to live in numbers in climates much, much harsher than New Mexico is today or realistically will be in the future. So the Sonoran Desert is moving north? Millions of people live in the Sonoran Desert right now, including the inhabitants of at least 3 major cities (Phoenix, Tucson, Hermosillo) and dozens of smaller cities and towns. Whether they know it or not, they are all in the process of finding ways to adapt our modern lifestyle to the desert while consuming less in the way of water and energy. And this process is really only just beginning...there is so much more to be learned from desert cultures throughout history about how to live efficiently and comfortably in even the harshest desert environments, to say nothing of the potential advances for desert living that science may one day provide.
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