46 percent of adult New Mexicans are "functionally illiterate" (tech jobs, university)

[sjbasin]

So what's the big deal? We live in a country where one can be illiterate and STILL be elected President. Twice.

[Towanda]

Hmmm. I was never a fan of President Clinton, but I never thought of him as illiterate.

Hard to be a graduate of an Ivy League college and be illiterate...if you get my drift.

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by tecpatl

I read the above article the other day...and it's pretty horrifying. No amount of growth, educational opportunities or available good jobs will make up for a populace that can't read, write, or add. It's a huge, huge problem on many levels.
A couple weeks ago I was up in Gallup on business, and the bride and I stopped in a fast food place for a cheeseburger. After ordering, the trainee (shadowed by a supervisor) at the register told me what the total was. I gave him 10 bucks and he hit the total button. At that point I reached out and handed him 32 cents...the exact change so I could get just bills back. The kid got wide-eyed....not a clue what to do. Worse, the supervisor couldn't figure it out. Then a third person entered the fray. After they huddled and whispered for 10 or 15 seconds, I told them how much money to give me. They all looked relieved (but embarassed) and handed me the bills I had requested. Without the cash register telling them what change to give me all three were lost..... I'll bet a lot of you have had a version of this experience.
That being said, Gov. Bill's idea of linking drivers licenses to academic achievement and school attendance is innovative and a very good idea. A good start, in any case. If there's one thing a kid will pay attention to (besides video games) it's getting that license.
I hope it can be implemented and that it's successful, and that if some success is realized it will be expanded and made LOTS tougher. Won't save the world, but anything that has a positive effect is much needed. Might spread to other states as well.

Holy Jesus Christ, Tecaptl. What an unfortunate story you just told.

[GregW]

Being from a wealthy family really does help with academic achievement. Enough with the gratuitous bush/kennedy bashing even if it is great fun.

Are the illiterate people illiterate in English or Spanish or both? I have been reading since I was four years old so I have difficulty imagining illiteracy although I came close during a trip to Europe 30 years ago. Not understanding Italian or German street signs or railroad schedules made thing interesting and difficult. Fortunately I had a very intelligent and skilled companion with me and she just told me what to do.

I think children have to have a clear reason to spend the time and energy to learn to read (given the reality of our population, in both English and Spanish) instead of just getting along with spoken language. When I was growing up I knew an elderly farmer that was illiterate and did not understand arithmetic. After a while I realized he had invented base five arithmetic to keep track of his farm business. He may have been illiterate but he was not dumb. I think this applies to most of the illiterate anywhere. It is not easy to understand our, or any, culture without being able to read or do arithmetic. How do we, and our teachers, encourage kids to understand that it is easier if you are literate and can do arithmetic. Maybe that would be reason enough for the kids to stay in school and keep learning. Learning makes life easier. And a lot more fun.

[Vinegaroon]

"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."

"Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning?"

[_yb]

Originally Posted by sjbasin

So what's the big deal? We live in a country where one can be illiterate and STILL be elected President. Twice.

I thought Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar. Never knew he was an illiterate. You learn something new everyday.

[rruff]

Originally Posted by GregW

Are the illiterate people illiterate in English or Spanish or both?

I bet it is English only, and that has a lot to do with the poor stats that they are making up in the article.

As for the worry about kids and poor education, seems to me like a big part of it is lack of opportunity besides lack of incentive. The good jobs are shrinking in the US, while the burger-flipping equivalents are expanding... and even the wages for those sort of jobs are not keeping up with inflation. Construction and factory work, which were traditionally decent paying "careers" pay less or have disappeared.

On the incentive side it is tough for kids to get up the motivation to compete for those few high-skilled jobs when the peer pressure runs the opposite way... and even the parents don't care.

I think schools should be much smaller and privatised... use a voucher system and put a little healthy competition into the education system... empower both the parents and students with choices.

[GregW]

I do not think a voucher system would help anyone but the owners of the privatized schools. I think the key is developing an incentive system that would provide a reason for the students to do the work.

In my case I pretty much ignored high school history and avoided most of the propaganda. I also did not do very well in English because writing out essays in longhand was very frustration and typing impossible. I could give a stand up speech on just about any topic whenever asked. This still annoys some of my friends.

I did well in arithmetic and geometry but algebra was a problem because I had problems with connecting all the symbols to their meanings. It was easier to derive the equation for the volume of a sphere geometrically than algebraically. That made calculus a real difficult proposition because I kept getting hung up on the algebra. Identitys anyone?

Anyway I believe that humans can learn darn near anything if they have the incentive to do it. Finding the incentive is the key.

Here is an idea that would have worked for me because I did not have any access to my own money (no allowance); Pay the kids for good grades. Say $5 for an A, $3 for a B, 0 for a C, they pay $3 for a D and $5 for an F. Whenever I bring this up with teachers they almost always go nuts over the blasphemy. But, hey, incentive is incentive.

[sjbasin]

Originally Posted by GregW

Here is an idea that would have worked for me because I did not have any access to my own money (no allowance); Pay the kids for good grades. Say $5 for an A, $3 for a B, 0 for a C, they pay $3 for a D and $5 for an F. Whenever I bring this up with teachers they almost always go nuts over the blasphemy. But, hey, incentive is incentive.

The problem with paying for grades is that there are kids in public school who are making good grades and still can't read. Or identify that huge blue space west of California.

I do agree with the idea of incentive. The issue with incentive today is that pretty much any moron can survive in the US without reading. Or writing. Or playing by the basic rules of civilized society. Everyone's pretty much "entitled" to a modicum of a decent living these days so the idea of busting yer butt is old fashioned nonsense to many young people.

In some cases, such as up here in the northwest colony of New Mexico, if you can manage to show up to work every day clean and sober, you can earn over $50k/year. Not much incentive for kids to buckle down and study when they see their peers earning good money in the oil field without being able to read or write.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by tecpatl

One question: why would New Mexico have to choose between industrial jobs and tourism jobs? Are they mutually exclusive? I think not....

I meant to offer just two of many possibilities. In other words I offered A and B of A, B, C, D, E, F, G, ... of the many ways that the economy could go. Not a choice of two, but two choices out of many.

I'm not informed in this subject but I'm interested in learning. And I'm motivated because I'm considering relocating to NM for my retirement and would like to know more about the people and the economy. I already know the scenery is beautiful!!!