Take this for what it's worth (Albuquerque, Santa Fe: low income, rent, appliances)

[Devin Bent]

An interesting article about impact of high gasoline prices:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/bu...asoline&st=nyt

Take it with a grain of salt -- because I suspect they cobbled together whatever data they could find and -- because I don't think they corrected for those areas where the oil is pumped out of the ground.

But -- allowing that significant portions of NM benefit from higher oil prices -- the article suggests that some rural areas may be particularly hard hit by the higher oil prices when we consider that some people will have low incomes, inefficient cars, and long distances from work.

For some people, the article suggests, working may become a money losing proposition?? This could show up in declining tax revenues and declining economies for some counties.

NM to date seems to have avoided recession. But the higher gas prices could change things for some counties??

[Vinegaroon]

Devin, I think everyone is just struggling out there, and the bottom has not yet dropped out. Yeah, it's more difficult for us out here I think because in general our mass transportation system has been underdeveloped, and people have big vehicles. I have a little gas efficient car, and I am now chuckling when I watch these people filling up their big pickups they don't really need. It's a stupid status symbol for most people, and they could do without the big vehicles. I hear the excuse that people need 4WD to get up their dirt road, but there are smaller 4WDs people! Try a Subaru or a Toyota truck.

One other thing I have noticed is that recently there are far fewer Humvees running around Santa Fe than there was a couple of years ago. Some of the Yuppy Trust Funders have actually gotten a clue and might have downsized to a BMW or Porsche.

[jsc23]

Originally Posted by Devin Bent

An interesting article about impact of high gasoline prices:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/bu...asoline&st=nyt

Take it with a grain of salt -- because I suspect they cobbled together whatever data they could find and -- because I don't think they corrected for those areas where the oil is pumped out of the ground.

I regularly visit Amarillo (with a refinery nearby) ABQ and Santa Fe. For several years the price variation was:
SF 0.10/gal more than Vegas
Las Vegas 0.10/gal more than ABQ
ABQ 0.10/gal more than Amarillo

Recently visited Amarillo, a petroleum producing hub with a refinery. New Price variation:
Amarillo 0.15/gal more than Las Vegas
Las Vegas 0.08/gal more than SF
SF 0.12/gal more than ABQ

So random price per gallon in ABQ was 35 cent less than Amarillo, a production center.... have never seen this skew before. So the numbers in the article may be conservative.

[Zoidberg]

I believe the increased price of diesel is contributing to more regional variation, since it takes diesel to move gas or diesel, unless you already have a pipeline doing the moving.

I'd imagine north Texas would only see a little bit of imported Mexican crude at its refineries, and deal mainly with NM/TX/OK/CO/KS crude. Albuquerque is a half-day closer to the ports on the west coast, and as Saudi, Kuwaiti, Alaskan crude finds other customers in the Pacific Rim, it makes sense for places like Phoenix and S. Cal to exert price pressure on fuel made in Grants and the Four Corners.

Don't think it'd make near as much sense to truck Texas refined products that far.

Gasbuddy.com has a great map tool (under gas price temperature map). Note the loose correlation between blue/red states and the price of gas.

Interesting tidbit: Excluding offshore, Texas net imports oil. New Mexico net exports oil. Alaska, Montana, Wyoming, net exporters. The other 45, DC, and territories: net importers. At least NM is taking a bit of a leadership role in fuel efficiency.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by Devin Bent

An interesting article about impact of high gasoline prices:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/bu...asoline&st=nyt

Take it with a grain of salt -- because I suspect they cobbled together whatever data they could find and -- because I don't think they corrected for those areas where the oil is pumped out of the ground.

But -- allowing that significant portions of NM benefit from higher oil prices -- the article suggests that some rural areas may be particularly hard hit by the higher oil prices when we consider that some people will have low incomes, inefficient cars, and long distances from work.

For some people, the article suggests, working may become a money losing proposition?? This could show up in declining tax revenues and declining economies for some counties.

NM to date seems to have avoided recession. But the higher gas prices could change things for some counties??

NM also benefits in that it's always been poor, a large number of the population is used to living with little more than the basics which I think actually helps. It's easier to raise kids around other kids who have little because they feel pretty well off by comparison. In many areas of NM, you really don't have to keep up with the Joneses, where in other places that's all everyone does.

The weather is so ideal in most of NM, that you don't really have to worry about fuel -- if it's there fine, but if it's not, you're not going to freeze to death without it, in other parts of the country there would be much more fear if heating fuel became unavailable.

Also since the weather is so great, most people could consider bicycles and mopeds the whole year. I don't think people have done all that much cutting back yet, you see them complaining but I haven't really noticed more bike riders or pedestrians, the buses here are still empty.

[GregW]

I have always, with one exception and that car was a gift, bought transportation, not status. Buy a used car or truck large enough to haul around what ever you have to haul but not any bigger. If you only need a 1-ton truck for one week a year, then rent it, don't pay for it sitting around, or worse, using expensive fuel for the rest of the time. Don’t ever worry about what the neighbors think because you are driving a 16 yr old Buick Wagon and not a current Caddy Escalade. For what its worth, I think those neighbors are extravagant fools, but so what. Buy what you need when you need it. Buy good quality stuff that will last. Fix what breaks and keep your cars until they rust out and are no longer safe. This also applies to appliances etc.

When I retire to NM I expect to buy a rust free very used Chevy Pick up truck if I actually need to haul stuff. Otherwise, I’ll just keep the old Buick if it still casts a shadow.

[AlisonL]

Originally Posted by GregW

I have always, with one exception and that car was a gift, bought transportation, not status. Buy a used car or truck large enough to haul around what ever you have to haul but not any bigger. If you only need a 1-ton truck for one week a year, then rent it, don't pay for it sitting around, or worse, using expensive fuel for the rest of the time. Don’t ever worry about what the neighbors think because you are driving a 16 yr old Buick Wagon and not a current Caddy Escalade. For what its worth, I think those neighbors are extravagant fools, but so what. Buy what you need when you need it. Buy good quality stuff that will last. Fix what breaks and keep your cars until they rust out and are no longer safe. This also applies to appliances etc.

When I retire to NM I expect to buy a rust free very used Chevy Pick up truck if I actually need to haul stuff. Otherwise, I’ll just keep the old Buick if it still casts a shadow.

Excellent points. We had a gas guzzler 3/4 ton truck. Didn't need it any longer, so sold it. We have my late brother in law's little Hyundai Accent to run around in. But we are also selling that. Plan to pick up a good used small pickup after we move. I see too many huge SUVs around here and its mostly women driving them....a status symbol type thing. Who cares. I just want to get from point A to point B the cheapest possible way.
Alison

P.S. I know, from experience, how many bales of hay can be squeezed into a Dodge Caravan too.

[mortimer]

GregW rightfully advises:

> If you only need a 1-ton truck for one week a year, then rent it,
> don't pay for it sitting around, or worse, using expensive fuel
> for the rest of the time.

You left out using the fuel at a high rate due to the basically ineficient design (as a passenger carrying vehicle).

I'm glad that someone else out there thinks this. I have friends who have trucks because they are work vehicles with lots of miles on them and even more scratches and dents.

Then there are the anatomical enhancement devices that never see a minute of service hauling things and are shiny and clean like the day they were purchased.

> ... keep your cars until they rust out and are no longer safe. This also applies to appliances etc.

I would add the caveat that some appliances such as air conditioners and refrigerators are so old that a newer model would pay for itself in reduced energy bills.

> When I retire to NM I expect to buy a rust free very used Chevy Pick up truck ...

You might be able to get one built before you were born.

[rruff]

Originally Posted by malamute

The weather is so ideal in most of NM, that you don't really have to worry about fuel -- if it's there fine, but if it's not, you're not going to freeze to death without it, in other parts of the country there would be much more fear if heating fuel became unavailable.

And in colder areas there is so much sun in the winter that passive solar and a small wood stove can do the trick.

Also since the weather is so great, most people could consider bicycles and mopeds the whole year.

The thing that bothers me is that there are no mass-produced viable options in between a car and a moped. We could be getting around town in very light and cheap enclosed vehicles... gas or electric... that are viable in all sorts of weather, and get the equivalent of several hundred mpg. This is a step in the right direction anyway:

BugE Main Page Earth for Earthlings

[GregW]

Mortimer - I was thinking the 1960's not the 1940's. 1940's trucks are antiques. 1960's trucks are still cheap.

I think lots of suburban moms have been sold the lie that they and the kiddies are safer in a big truck and the gals like to be able to see over traffic. When marginally snowy roads and tractors trailers are involved both conditions are no linger true. SUV’s are less safe in the snow and the big rigs always win in a crash.

Like I said – buy transport.