Where to move -- Santa Fe/Taos Area? (Chama: selling a house, transfer)

[Towanda]

madrone! Oh my goodness, you are a person after my own heart!

Here all this time I thought I was the only person in America who didn't want granite countertops. In fact, when we were househunting, I immediately crossed the place off my list if it had granite counters.

[Devin Bent]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

There has been way over a century of embedded mistrust between the long-time Hispanic (and often Native American) residents of northern New Mexico and Anglos. Long-time New Mexicans--Anglo and Hispanic--tend to understand this dynamic and get along with one another. A lot of "newbies" don't understand it--and don't get along very well.

Then there is the climate. Read this: IT AIN'T CALIFORNIA. New Mexico's climate can be beautiful, but it is not predictable and benign. It's arid, drought-prone, with wide temperature variation from season to season, even from day to night. When it's not dry, it can be prone to short-lived but violent summer storms with attendant flash floods. Anyplace above 5,000 ft. elevation will get snow in winter--above 7,500 ft. often a lot. It doesn't have California growing seasons, not by a long shot. Around 180 days would be a MAXIMUM in most places--get above 6,000 to 7,000 feet it will be way less than that. Like most of the Rocky Mountain West, New Mexico is BROWN for 6-7 months of the year--no leaves on trees, brown grass, etc., etc. If you don't like that, New Mexico is not for you.

Jazzlover,

Much of what you say is true, but does not necessarily apply to all of New Mexico. I have lived in Nambe for three years now at 6,000 feet. I couldn't give you a complete list of crops -- but people in the Pojoaque Valley have no trouble growing copious quantities of corn and tomatoes, and Nambe is traditionally an area for growing apples.

I come from the east and am yet to see anything here that I would consider a serious or violent storm -- winter or summer. Once we had a lot of snow, but no big wind accompanied it. Every other snow has melted from my steps and driveway by noon. Flash floods -- yes, if you are foolish enough to stay in a river bed or an arroyo, but otherwise no. Yes, it cools off radically at night -- but for much of the year, I consider that a plus.

Brown? Much of the valley is irrigated and people have allowed trees to grow up. Drive along 503 in Nambe and you see green deciduous trees -- mostly cottonwood and Russian olive. I live above the irrigated area, but still I have the evergreen Juniper and the evergray-green saltbush as the dominant plants on my property. Russian sage, snakeweed, and butterfly bush are not evergreens, but are green for many months.

And there is a long tradition in the Pojoaque Valley of Anglos (the minority) and Hispanics (the majority) getting along well -- a tradition that dates back to the 1930s.

It is not all sweetness and light. I think the patron system has broken down, but a tradition of family-based hiring remains and the government does not seem that competent.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Devin Bent

Jazzlover,

Much of what you say is true, but does not necessarily apply to all of New Mexico. I have lived in Nambe for three years now at 6,000 feet. I couldn't give you a complete list of crops -- but people in the Pojoaque Valley have no trouble growing copious quantities of corn and tomatoes, and Nambe is traditionally an area for growing apples.

I come from the east and am yet to see anything here that I would consider a serious or violent storm -- winter or summer. Once we had a lot of snow, but no big wind accompanied it. Every other snow has melted from my steps and driveway by noon. Flash floods -- yes, if you are foolish enough to stay in a river bed or an arroyo, but otherwise no. Yes, it cools off radically at night -- but for much of the year, I consider that a plus.

Brown? Much of the valley is irrigated and people have allowed trees to grow up. Drive along 503 in Nambe and you see green deciduous trees -- mostly cottonwood and Russian olive. I live above the irrigated area, but still I have the evergreen Juniper and the evergray-green saltbush as the dominant plants on my property. Russian sage, snakeweed, and butterfly bush are not evergreens, but are green for many months.

And there is a long tradition in the Pojoaque Valley of Anglos (the minority) and Hispanics (the majority) getting along well -- a tradition that dates back to the 1930s.

It is not all sweetness and light. I think the patron system has broken down, but a tradition of family-based hiring remains and the government does not seem that competent.

I don't know how long you have lived in New Mexico, Devin--I've passed the four-decade mark of spending a fair amount of time in northern New Mexico (and far southern Colorado). I have seen some plenty violent weather there during those many years. Not like Midwestern tornadoes or Northern Plains blizzards by any means, but something much more "in your face" than what most Californians would be used to.

Northern New Mexico does not have a long growing season like many areas of California. That doesn't mean that crops can't be grown, but there is a long "dormant" season from mid-fall to mid-spring. (For that matter, the San Luis Valley just over the line into Colorado is a splendid agricultural area, and most of the Valley only has about a 120 day growing season, but that does not mean the climate is mild there.)

One last comment I will make about climate and weather in New Mexico--and all of the Rocky Mountain West, for that matter: the last 10-20 years or so, for the most part, have been abnormally mild during the winter in most years, compared with before that. I will leave the debate for another day as to whether that is caused by global warming, natural climatic variation, or something else--but, if the climatic pattern reverts to what was more typical in the century or so before, say, around 1980, the last few years may seem pretty tame.

You make another good point. All that green down in those valley bottoms is the result of irrigation--and the hard work that goes with it. No water--no green fields. This also gets lost on a lot of newbies. They think that a) they automatically have a right to use that water (not!), and b) that irrigation just "happens" with not much effort or tending (wrong there, too).

Finally, I have not spent time in Pojoaque--I was speaking in general terms about northern New Mexico. My first foray into northern New Mexico was not too long after the whole Reyes Tijerina thing up at TA back in 1967--and I know for a fact that things can still be a little "tense" in a lot of that area from time to time--even yet.

[Devin Bent]

Obviously I don't have your experience in New Mexico. But I have many years of experience living other places -- all east of the Mississippi, and frankly I have never seen three years of such pussycat weather. And if it has been going on for twenty years, it is hard to say that it is not normal.

Or it may also be that we have microclimates here and that the places tucked up on the west side of the Sangres are somehow protected. Dixon is famous for organic farming and Chimayo for chili. Nambe just got too suburban -- it is not really an agricultural area any more. But it used to be famous for apples, because apparently the wind blew less than in other parts of the Pojoaque Valley. So is it a coincidence that all these places have some sort of agricultural reputation?

Re Reyes Tijerina -- it does not seem to be a memory around here. The standard response is pretty much "everybody has always gotten along." Maybe it is because the PV is on a main route north-south and Anglos have been here a long time.

Best

[Cathy4017]

Originally Posted by Devin Bent

Or it may also be that we have microclimates here and that the places tucked up on the west side of the Sangres are somehow protected. Dixon is famous for organic farming and Chimayo for chili...

Best

Chimayó and other areas in northern NM are famous for chile because of the "land races" that have been developed to grow in higher, cooler elevations with a much shorter growing season.

I've never been able to get seed for Chimayó, but did for Española, another variety for more northern climates. It did NOT do well in lower-elevation hot West Texas, but many other varieties (6-4, Sandía, Barker's, etc.) did, because they were developed to grow in such a climate.

Dixon, too, has a "land race", as well as Velarde.

[Devin Bent]

Originally Posted by Cathy4017

Chimayó and other areas in northern NM are famous for chile because of the "land races" that have been developed to grow in higher, cooler elevations with a much shorter growing season.

I've never been able to get seed for Chimayó, but did for Española, another variety for more northern climates. It did NOT do well in lower-elevation hot West Texas, but many other varieties (6-4, Sandía, Barker's, etc.) did, because they were developed to grow in such a climate.

Dixon, too, has a "land race", as well as Velarde.

That is very interesting information about land races. Still you will have to excuse me but I don't think that answers my question of why these towns became known for agriculture and not other towns with water and at a similar altitude. Espanola may have a "land race" but I live a few miles south of Espanola and nobody ever talks about their chili. But they do talk about Chimayo chili. They both have a "land race" and one is famous and one is not. So a lond race cannot explain the difference. (When I say famous, I mean among ordinary folk, not experts who know about "land races"-- which I thought were races held on land.)

And why is Dixon of all places, the center of organic farming in New Mexico when there are other towns at similar altitude and with water for irrigation? And some of course are lower in altitude and should have a longer growing season than Dixon???

[Cathy4017]

Originally Posted by Devin Bent

That is very interesting information about land races. Still you will have to excuse me but I don't think that answers my question of why these towns became known for agriculture and not other towns with water and at a similar altitude. Espanola may have a "land race" but I live a few miles south of Espanola and nobody ever talks about their chili. But they do talk about Chimayo chili. They both have a "land race" and one is famous and one is not. So a lond race cannot explain the difference. (When I say famous, I mean among ordinary folk, not experts who know about "land races"-- which I thought were races held on land.)

And why is Dixon of all places, the center of organic farming in New Mexico when there are other towns at similar altitude and with water for irrigation? And some of course are lower in altitude and should have a longer growing season than Dixon???

Good questions, for which I don't have the answers. My point was....if they had not developed these varieties suitable for higher elevations, shorter growing seasons and colder nights, there would be no chile grown in such areas.

[hogfarmer]

Madrone,

So you're not coming back to Minnesota? Believe me, I certainly can understand.

We've gone thru similar soul searching and just a couple of observations from the little we've seen. Yes, Sonoma is a beautiful location and visit there at least twice a year. Our son is working not far from the Wharf, and can certainly understand why he loves the area (and will never be back to the midwest.) Certainly you could do worse spending life in Windsor.

But for us, and it sounds like for you, there is more to life than Zin and hot tubs. We've explored the north, and frankly with the proximity of the larger towns (and airports) there seems to be a fair amount of California influence in the areas you've mentioned. And maybe having an airport within an hour is a necessity for you, but certainly it is in the realm of a commuter existance to live in the ABQ and surrounding regions. Not at all bad, and no question Taos and Santa Fe are beautiful areas. If you're set on the region, you might look into the Deer Canyon preserve-great concept.

On the other hand, we've settled in on the Ruidoso/Alto area ourselves. Not convenient to any airport (about half way between El Paso and ABQ) and so not as heavily influenced by the West Coast experience, but beautiful country. From what we've seen, most of the money (and influence) comes from Texas, and as a result people extremely friendly-and genuine. Also seems like the groups get along pretty well, everyone seems to respect the other cultures and way of life. Not as much money in this area compared with Sante Fe for sure, but rapidly coming up in the ranks. Maybe a bit milder in climate but still sufficient elevation to have a major ski resort just up the hill a bit.

Anyway, just a couple of ramblings from a New Mexico wannabe!

[Devin Bent]

Hogfarmer,

You make some excellent points -- but I have a couple of quibbles.

1. At various times I have read on this forum that this area is dominated by:
a. Californians
b. New Yorkers/Jerseyites
c. Mexican street criminals

I am sure that every poster who put these things up firmly and genuinely believed them, but I live here and none of them are true. This whole area is a blend of people of considerable variety.

2. Ruidoso is a great place but it is 7,000 feet and Alto -- I believe is a little higher -- neither is likely to be 3a climate zone. Maybe you might suggest someplace in the same area that is about 6,000 feet?? I am sure there must be such a place.

3. To my mind the big differences are that Santa Fe is a major center of arts and Santa Fe City and County have put the breaks on growth in a way that can withstand legal challenge. If these things mean little to you, then the Ruidoso area is cheaper and is the obvious choice.

[SwansDown]

Originally Posted by Towanda

madrone! Oh my goodness, you are a person after my own heart!

Here all this time I thought I was the only person in America who didn't want granite countertops. In fact, when we were househunting, I immediately crossed the place off my list if it had granite counters.

I third that!

Unless I live in the middle of a granite quarry, I am *not* having granite countertops!

(did I mention my aversion to green manicured golf courses in the desert?)