Las Vegas & Highlands U. with a family (Albuquerque, Santa Fe: houses, unemployment)

[Fungi]

Hi All:

I am considering a position at New Mexico Highlands University(faculty) and would be coming with my wife and my 5 year old son and border collie. We are anglos, but I grew up in a hispanic town in the Central Valley of California. My wife would probably try to work at the university or hospital. We would hope to be moving there for the next 10 years or so, or until the tyke finishes high school. I should add we love hiking, jogging, winter sports, and animals, but we are not the Colorado goretex types. Just a good walk in the woods,job, or bike ride is nice.

We live in Oregon, which is lovely, but very expensive (homes $350-600k, jobs pay $30-50k) due largely to retiring Californians. Las Vegas looks to be a scenic, interesting place with comparatively affordable housing.

Any tips on schools, homes, and just living in Las Vegas?

Thanks!

[Zoidberg]

Things you may not be aware of:

*Las Vegas doesn't have particularly low unemployment, and who you know has everything to do with who hires you. Unless your wife possesses skills that are in desperately short supply (e.g. RN) she may wait a long time to get hired on somewhere.

*Las Vegas is _way_ too cold for me. You get a combination of brutal winter winds and really low mercury on occasion. If you're in, say, SE oregon, this may not be a big adjustment for you. If you're toward the more temperate end, you should wait for a nice crisp January snowstorm and come to ski and check out just how cold it gets there.

On a side note, many people who relocate to small towns get bored. They see the advantages and don't realize the disadvantages (for some, Wal-mart really is the most exciting thing in town). It's about 40min to Santa Fe (ick) and about 1:30 to Albuquerque, depending on how literally you take the speed limit.

And one last thing about Las Vegas, which is unique to Las Vegas, is the slow pace of everything. If the speed limit is 35, people go 25. The people for the most part seem to move slowly. I don't mean that in a derogatory way; they probably put a little more measure of thought into what they say and do. I've had family live there and even though it was a long time ago, they had friends there they were sad to leave, and it was a pleasant community for them. I think if any small town would drive me insane (even Española), it would be LV for this very reason. It's definitely not for everybody.

[Gallit]

Everything Zoid said is spot on. In terms of employment, it's definitely all about who you know. And unless you can score a decent position at Highlands University, United World College, Alta Vista Hospital (or "Hasta la Vista", as the locals call it) or the New Mexico Behavioral Health Institute (all of which are nearly impossible to get unless they're in desperate need of your expertise), then you're very likely to find yourself commuting out of town for work in order to earn a livable wage. Just something for your wife to consider (or even yourself, if it turns out you don't care for your job at Highlands).

If it were just you, your spouse and your pet, I would say give it a shot. But I would never raise a child here - and I most definitely wouldn't enroll them in either school district (I've interned in both East and West districts - West has gotten in trouble for compliance several times and East is well on its way).

I mentioned in a previous thread that people are generally kind and courteous during the day, but venture out at night and it's a whole other story.

All in all, Vegas isn't bad if your stay is a temporary one (3 years max) or if you're older, have a nice retirement package and just want to kick back and enjoy the scenery. But if you're looking for a place in which to settle and raise a family, I'd steer clear of here.

[uggabugga]

I might add that New Mexico Highlands U. is unfortunately a bit of a basket case in terms of the way it's run and the way they hemorrhage faculty. There for a while they were going thru about one president per year, and each left with a nice golden parachute of $200K or more; hopefully it's improved since then, but I doubt it. When I was there as a post-doc, it took more than three months for them to manage to get my paperwork taken care of so I could get my first paycheck. This paycheck came with a letter that roughly translated to "we're pretty sure this check won't bounce."
The town itself is pretty shabby, but I liked it, personally. And it's surrounded by some fantastic landscape.

[ziaAirmac]

I wouldn't recommend raising your son there. My wife was courted for a high end position at the NM Behavioral Institute. It was a very nice package, and that's what made us really look into things. Don't get me wrong, Las Vegas has it's nicer points but it was obvious that I wouldn't find comparable work there. Also, it's a very Northern New Mexico Hispanic community, which can alienate outsiders easily.

I had a girl that worked for me who grew up there and had just moved to Albuquerque a year before straight out of high school. When she found out we were considering the move, she wholeheartedly recommended against it. She said the two high schools (She had attended both, hoping to find better) could be described as bad and terrible. Very cliquish, unfriendly to outsiders, lots of mini-gangs and bad elements easily available. And she was Hispanic.

We found the housing/neighborhoods very spotty and a lunch at a local park with our toddlers got stares. I got mad dogged, but I'm still not sure why. I think it's because our girls toddled over and began to swing on a set that this guys kids had already 'claimed'. I just pretended like I had no idea what he was doing and trusted he wouldn't get stupid in front of the kids but my wife didn't grow up around here. It made me wonder what she might walk into. To give you an idea of what mad dogging can lead to out here, a guy who was squinting due to a torn contact invited gang signs and gunfire which was later returned with people actually being shot. Apparently the guy mistook squinting for mad dogging.

In the end, we decided it would be a great place to 'pay your dues' catch up on debt, enjoy the local wilderness and build up to a better move if we were single. In the back of our minds was the awareness that if for some reason she lost this position, she would almost certainly not be able to find something comparable (see Gallit's comments on 'who you know'.). It would trigger an early, unexpected move that would kill what might have been the benefit anyway. Finally, the thought of my girls growing up there caused me to veto against my wife's undecided.

I hate to throw out a negative, but honesty is one of the points of these forums. If you had the weekend we did, to drive up and really get a feel for the place, I think you'd come to some of the same conclusions.

[Fungi]

ZiaAirmac and all,

Great information. Thank you! I had a nice conversation with the hiring official at the university this morning. I still feel that they could use someone with my background and experience, but I am not sure what to think about the town. I would like to help develop the program there, but not if it is at too large a cost for my family.

Can anyone speak more specifically about the schools in Las Vegas? Are there surrounding, commutable towns that are better?

[ziaAirmac]

As we saw it, Las Vegas is an all or nothing town. You either move there and commit to a life there, or you don't. We even considered getting a home that split the difference between Las Vegas and say Pecos/Santa Fe but all that does is build a commute into everyone's day and what if one parent has to respond to a child on the other side commute? You're an hour and a half away. That isn't even considering the effects of winter, which up there could easily result in closed roads. We considered all sorts of angles, but in the end decided that if we were going to take the position we needed to just find a great place near the institute to minimize the main commute (my wife's.). In addition, I needed to find something in town. We actually picked a few houses within walking distance.

As for the schools, I can't add any more than I did. It would be great if someone close to the elementary system there could chime in.

A few other thoughts on the offer:

First, we were struck by the seeming dearth of a middle class. It felt like there was the high end academia/medical crowd and then there was the low end service/retail crowd and really nothing in between. Maybe it's a function of the overall direction of the economy, but it seemed more evident in Las Vegas. We didn't feel comfortable with the thought of being in a select group on the top ending up seeing the same people at the parties that you see at work because you're disconnected from the rest of the town on some level.

Second, ask if the University offers or recommends elementary level programs for children of faculty and staff. Where does (did) the Dean send his (her) kids to school. Considering the field they're in, I'd be surprised if they hadn't made the best choice available in the area.

Finally, keep in mind that it's a bit of a fish bowl and coming from the outside with experience makes you especially valuable. Most of the higher level positions have to come from the outside. If you recruit in town, you're effectively cannibalizing a precious resource from another part of the University. Of course the offer looks good. No one ever moved to an isolated town for a bad offer. Your situation is unique to you, but to give you an idea of what we ran into: the guy that actively recruited my wife had been with the Institute for over ten years. He praised her experience and was very complimentary in the interviews. He talked about how he looked forward to working with her on developing the program she was being considered to develop/head. He was gone three weeks later. Coincidence? Maybe, but if he had any idea he was ready to punch out, he sure didn't make it clear in the interviews. He said what needed to be said to get her to consider signing on. It's just that simple.

[Fungi]

Thanks ZiaAirmac,

Very candid and appreciated points. I have a soft spot for that area, but all the concerns you mention are on my mind too. I agree it would be great to hear from someone who raised their children in Las Vegas. It is also a very good idea to ask what the academics have chosen to do with their children. Much appreciated.

Did you happen to see if there were any good trails right around the town, or were they farther up in the Sangre de Cristos?

[ziaAirmac]

While we weren't specifically looking, our impression was it's pretty spotty. The areas around the University seemed really nice and some of the nearby tree lined streets, but other areas were not so hot. The river didn't look like it had any sort of official trail connected to it, and the one park we stopped at didn't have trails coming or going. Storey lake is just up the road and I imagine would offer some nice walking opportunities. Otherwise I think you're looking at heading for the mountains (which, while not in town are all quite near.).

[Thunderbomb82]

If you don't see the possibilty of another position teaching, then you could take it. They do need good people.

I haven't ever heard of much positive unless you can deal with a "different" culture. The culture shock and the different attitude.

If it was me, I wouldn't recommend raising my children there. Unless I knew I wasn't going to be there long.


Don't take me for heart, it's up to you and what you want to do. It may work out very well for you.