Be careful buying a used car from a dealer...

[DOUBLE H]

Thanks for clearing it up for me, was only going on info from friends. I do know know they don't take the Journal. They generally watch KOB for news, maybe they just haven't caught it when it was on.

[Mike Horrell]

A 2005 Hyundai Tucson 4wd V-6 that we bought new in Virginia to take to
Panama and a 1997 Buick Century that we bought here from a friend to avoid
paying huge rental fees until the Hyundai arrived back and cleared customs.

Reliability is my criteria; that Buick looks rough but only has 30K miles on it and
runs perfectly. The Hyundai is not a "prestige" SUV, it's very functional,
small enough to be easily driven in extremely dense traffic and is surprisingly
comfortable, actually more comfortable than the Buick.

When we bought the Hyundai we had lots of cash since we had sold our house
but had not yet purchased anything in Panama so we didn't play trade-in or
finance games. But we absolutely outraged the dealer by whipping out my
American Express card to pay for it. $5k off list and then he had to bite
Amex's service fee, too... Got a LOT of points with that purchase and then
just paid it off immediately with the cash we already had set aside.

The same day the Zanaga story broke, I was sounding out the used car market
at several import dealers. That Buick was a really good buy, but I'm not
very enthusiastic about it and I decided to see if the import dealers were really
hungry enough to make it worth trading it in on something newer.

Short answer, no. The dealers are hungry, but not enough to really be willing
to unload inventory just to reduce their standing debt. At least they aren't
there yet.

I don't want to run any particular dealer down, so I won't be very specific,
but one major importer had some decent buys, one had nothing worth spending
any time on and and a third had a couple of interesting cars at NEARLY good
prices, but in the end couldn't shake itself free of the whole "I'm a car dealer
and I'm gonna get over on this rube" negotiating mentality.

I told that dealer that I wanted his very best price knowing, of course, that
there would be some back and forth and even laid out some very broad hints
about extended warranties, etc. They were so channeled that none of that
got through and it immediately devolved in the classic "what's it going to take
to get you into this car today" BS. I told him there were three elements;
price, price and price. When they didn't seem ready to go any further, I told
them to chew it over, and if they were interested, give me a call with the best
price they could possibly swing.

About 6 hours later they did call, but it was basically to sound me out about
the price they had already offered. Fahgedaboudit...

I don't think the dealers and sales staff are innovative or self-perceptive enough
to recognize that they have to start unloading inventory at cost or even a slight
loss to free up capital and obtain the financing that they need to survive.

The point of all this is that I think many outlets are going to go down the tubes
within the next few months even though they are actually in survivable positions
and unless you are very careful, you may get stuck with not only a poor deal,
but one that may not have clear title.

Remember, even new cars have liens against them held by the manufacturer's
dealer financing programs and you'd best find out how to ensure that you
are protected from Zangara Disease..

Demand to see the actual ownership, lien or title papers on the specific vehicle
before you sign anything. If there is a lien, you may want to make an offer to
purchase the vehicle, MINUS THE LIEN AMOUNT and pay it off yourself.
Or offer to coordinate that part of the pay-off directly with the lien holder.

The dealer will howl about that because they expect to make all sorts of extra fees
processing your paperwork (you can do all that yourself if you want, you don't
HAVE to do it through them) but if there is an outstanding lien, and they will
not clear it before the sale; walk away and look elsewhere..

It's going to be a buyers' market for some time to come. Take advantage of that.

[loborick]

Zangara has been in trouble many times before. I'm surprised he has stayed open this long. Tons of complaints over the years against his dealership. I'm glad they're gone.