New Mexico liberalism (Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Rio Rancho: contractors, university, taxes)

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by funkymonkey

I think the state legislature is more likely to restrict abortion than guns.

I completely agree.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by PrescottAZ

I did search and read some threads that were related but would like to hear more opinions on this subject.

I love the New Mexico landscape and the culture. The one thing that stops me from relocating (from Prescott, AZ) is the fear that New Mexico is slowly becoming sort of the New Jersey of the southwest. I think of myself as socially fairly "liberal" (pro-choice, ok with gays, not religious) but also politically conservative in some ways (strong supporter of the 2nd amendment as written-keep and bear, believe in small government, self reliance and so on). For instance, I would not want to move anywhere that might at some point pass very restrictive gun legislation, both on principal, and because gun ownership and shooting is one of my major hobbies. Say what you will about Arizona (it's getting crowded by my standards), gun rights are safe here (at least from the state governemnt) and will be for my lifetime at least. There is zero chance Arizona would pass restrictive gun laws.

I have read about some New Mexicans becoming "fed up" with the liberalism and "nanny state" inclinations of the population centers in Northern New Mexico but see that liberal politicians keep getting elected. I wonder about the evolution of that "state control" state wide over the next decade or two. Although it doesn't sound like the second amendment is under attack currently in New Mexico, can liberal politicians really help themselves from eventually trying to stomp on those rights? They certainly haven't avoided doing it in many of the very blue states, just a question of how fast they get around to it. My question isn't really about gun control specifically (it is just a kind of symbol), more about political "climate", for lack of better words.

Anyone have any thoughts?

My take on NM is the state is more democratic than truely liberal. they do have a lot of welfare programs, partly because there are so many who need or think they need asssistance, but I still would not consider the state truely liberal. The voting record this past election was overwelming democrat, almost scarey truthfully. I do not think, however, you need to worry about gun rights.

Nita

[highdesertmutz]

sounds like op more concerned about "liberalism" than gun carrying laws. if people decide to move to new mexico it is NOT because we have "liberal" gun laws, and it is not because we are "liberals or conservatives".
people move to new mexico for the climate, the high desert (arid climate) the forests and trees, lakes, rivers, valleys, streams, sparsely populated areas, and mountains. There is not nearly anywhere in America (with the exception of alaska) which still has great wilderness areas, with the best of all worlds as afore mentioned. Wilderness.net- Wilderness Areas in New Mexico
so, people do not relocate to new mexico solely for gun laws, or for political posturing, people come here, because it can be a great place to live. BTW. My personal opinion of this thread? it is troll. just to see what people can pick up. why? because if you want to have a gun in your home, for protection, it is your perogative. I doubt Uncle Sam will knock on your door someday demanding you relinquish all fire arms to him. some people carry guns in new mexico, but it is a minority of people who really do. yes, you can walk down the streets of new mexico, and not eveyone has a 6 gun strapped to their hip. I think criminals are more likely to be carrying guns than ordinary citizens are.
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed

New Mexico DPS | Concealed & Carry Information

New Mexico DPS | Concealed & Carry Information

New Mexico Concealed Carry Law Takes Effect

NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR SIGNS BILL IMPROVING CONCEALED CARRY LAW

Democracy for New Mexico: Liberal Clout in the 111th Congress: Where Will New Mexico's Delegation Stand?
and if people think new mexico is way too liberal for them to coexist with other people, there's other places they could move, like texas.

[PrescottAZ]

6 FOOT 3, Mike, nmnita : Thank you for your thoughts.

highdesertmutz: Thank you for the links, but I have to say, if I do decide to relocate, I hope your tone and attitude is not reflective of New Mexicans in general. Perhaps all posters should check with you before psoting so you can screen questions for their acceptabilty.

[domino]

Some of us like Mutz. Diversity of opinion is what makes places interesting. We would even welcome you to NM.

[silversurfer]

New Mexico in the rural areas can be quite conservative. I doubt most have say a Planned Parenthood clinic, or any choices for women on that front. (Of course the teen preg. rates are sky high). The Catholic church also plays a major role there too.
I think you can find very liberal places in NM, and some VERY conservative places too. Like most states it's a mixed bag. But we did go for Obama this election.
Guns are a way of life here, that's a fact and I don't see that changing. Ever. No liberal could get elected to national office without the 2nd amd't on his side.
In the town of Reserve citizens are required to own a gun. Now that's NM for you!

[mortimer]

PrescottAZ singled out posters in this thread:

> 6 FOOT 3, Mike, nmnita : Thank you for your thoughts.

> highdesertmutz .... I hope your tone and attitude is not reflective
> of New Mexicans in general. Perhaps all posters should check with
> you before posting so you can screen questions for their acceptabilty.

A thread may have been started by a single person, but no thread
is ABOUT a single person ( with the exception of about 10,000 posts
started by a certain individual who shall not be named ).

Once the thread is opened, anyone can chime in and <GASP!>
disagree with someone else.

> Thank you to the few that contributed something useful.

.... meaning, of course, that anyone that posted something that
you didn't want to read was posting useless junk?

I liked ALL the posts here. I thought they were ALL friggin' great!

mutz wrote:

m> people do not relocate to new mexico solely for gun laws, or for political
m> posturing, people come here, because it can be a great place to live

D@mn right!

m> if people think new mexico is way too liberal for them to coexist
m> with other people, there's other places they could move ....

Yeah! And, yeah, .... and if .... if people don't like our gun laws ....
well [not-nail]-em. (the other thing for joining wood)

[EnjoyEP]

This is an interesting question - and one that comes up on the forum from time to time. I am a pretty politically-involved individual in my "real life", so I have some observations as it relates to NM liberalism (or any other political bent):

1. For the purposes of my dialogue, I am going to utilize "Republicans" and "conservatives" a bit in conjunction, as obviously most identify the GOP as the major political party with conservatives. Similarly, I will utilize "Democrats" and "liberals" a bit in conjunction, as obviously most identify currently the Dems as the major political party with liberals.

2. I tend to observe that largely the composition of the Republican Party typically is that of joint-ideology (with exceptions of course - eg: "RINOs" - typically an ideology of low taxes, limited government, strong military, traditional conservative values - or - "social conservatism). Whereas, I tend to observe that largely the composition of the Democratic Party is that of co-existing "interest groups" such as: labor/teachers unions, university academics, pro-abortion advocates and large percentages of certain ethnic groups including African Americans/blacks, Hispanics, as well as college students.

---

Having established this...

It seems to me that as others have stated, New Mexico tends to skew a bit more towards social conservatism - especially as it relates to gun rights, etc. - and more towards fiscal liberalism.

HOWEVER...even that is somewhat distorted.

Gary Johnson was the (fairly popular) governor of the state before until-very-recent-extremely popular current guv (D) Bill Richardson. Johnson was a fairly conservative Republican, however, skewed more towards libertarianism in some issues (he was a legalized drug advocate, for example, which puts him at odds with many Republicans - and Demos for that matter). However, fiscally he was much more conservative than Richardson. Yet, both were fairly popular (although Richardson even more so).

New Mexico is goofy like that.

I would say that New Mexico as a whole goes more Democratic (eg: "liberal") because of the large Hispanic population dominating the state voting that way for issues like illegal immigration and preferring more government spending / aide. These folks are voting Democrat just as the folks living in ultra-liberal Santa Fe or Taos, yet, are doing so in many respects for completely different reasons than their counterparts in those more East Coast-classically liberal towns.

*(Of course this is probably the time to caveat this in that certainly I am speaking in generalities. You have to do that when analyzing a state's political leanings. For instance, Michael Steele is a rock-ribbed conservative Republican, but that doesn't mean that 95% of all voting black folks in the US voted for the Democrat in 08).

The Hispanic populace of the state largely is anti-gay marriage, etc., and leans more towards pro-life; the Santa Fe crowd largely would be strongly pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. Yet both groups vote Democrat.

As others have mentioned, it is a state largely defined by its "zones" - largely Northern NM very Democratic, Central (eg: Albuquerque) fairly mixed although more Democratic in tilt, and South more conservative / Republican although semi-mixed too.

Northern New Mexico just has, again, Santa Fe and Taos, more of the what I would definite classic-New England liberals.

But Northern New Mexico also has an incredible aged history with families of long, long, long time New Mexicans (or native New Mexicans) who have voted Democratic essentially their whole lives. Many continue to vote that way simply because "that's how we have always voted".

While there assuredly are conservatives/GOP'ers living in Santa Fe and/or Taos, I would say those would be the two towns in the state where you'd really feel like a fish out of water if you had a Bobby Jindal in '12 sign up.

Central NM (eg: Albuquerque) is very odd. You've got Kirtland Airforce Base - heavily conservative / Republican employees and residents obviously. Many of these folks gravitate towards the Northeast Heights and portions of the West side. You've got TONS of military contractors (Boeing, Sandia National Labs, North. Grum., etc.) - again, heavily conservative / Republicans in those areas.

Yet, Albuquerque also has UNM with the large liberal/Demo base that colleges almost always provide. The areas surrounding UNM residentially draw quite a few liberals/Demos, Downtown as well. And then in the Southeast/Southwest, again, a huge Hispanic presence that votes Democratic too, although for much different reasoning than their counterparts by UNM. Rio Rancho - the biggest burb of ABQ - is rather mixed (lots of NE transplants that bring liberal views but also lots of conservatives).

In Albuquerque, if you have a "I love Goldwater" or a "I love McGovern" sticker on your car, you'll have many others like you. I will note though, being a Republican in a Democratic area of ABQ (or vice/versa) is much different than being a Republican in a heavily Democratic area of Boston, or being a Democrat in a heavily Republican area of Alabama. People'll argue politics in the city, and sure, a few yard signs get stolen, but overall it is a fairly laid-back, friendly, and calm political climate (amongst the citizens, that is).

Look at Marty Chavez, ABQ's mayor. He's pretty darn liberal in some areas, but then he's more pro-business / pro-growth than you'd typically associate with a "classic liberal Democratic mayor". He's like Albuquerque metro - tilts more Democratic / liberal, but overall fairly moderate in the wash.

Republicans have a grip in Southern and Eastern New Mexico still, fueled much by the rural areas in the towns that have a very anti-big government stance, as well as large military presences (such as White Sands, Alamogordo, Clovis, etc.).

I wouldn't say this area is a lock for GOP'ers though, as the huge numbers of Hispanics in the area - again largely voting on issues like illegal immigration and favoring more government spending / aide, are offsetting some of the GOP presence.

However, again, I would say that in most areas of Southern / Eastern New Mexico, no matter your political views / party-affiliations, you'll find many like you and even if you don't offhand, you'll be largely left alone. People are just in general too laid back to get all angry at you about how your car's bumper sticker goes.

---

SUMMARY:

I would say that New Mexico has virtually no chance to become a "New Jersey" of the Southwest any time soon.

Look at taxes as a major issue. The more "classic Northeast liberal" doesn't particularly mind larger government spending eg: fairly high taxation, frankly, because for the most part, they can afford it. However, Democrats in New Mexico would be committing political suicide trying to blindly increase spending/taxes...as the people wouldn't allow huge tax increases the way they do in the Northeast...they simply couldn't afford it.

Whether GOP or Dem, it seems like people in New Mexico surely do have a passion for "fairness" and thus seem to genuinely want to debate each politician, each issue, etc. Sure, the Democratic New Mexican may have a different perception of "fair" to the Republican one, however, all seem to largely be willing to be engaged and participate in the dialogue. Thus, it just seems hard to believe that any time soon the state would sweep largely to the left (or, for that matter, to the right).

I will put this another way: if you want to really hack off a Republican / conservative, talk about the "Fairness Doctrine". In the Northeast, you'll get a lot of support among the citizenry that votes Democratic for the "Fairness Doctrine". In the state of New Mexico, outside of Santa Fe, even among lifelong Democrats you'll not get a lot of public support for something like the "Fairness Doctrine".

Another way of saying this: Republicans in New Mexico will NOT just support an issue or a politician just because they have an "R" by their name, and Democrats in New Mexico are largely the same to the "D"s. Even though Bernalillo County has numerous more registered Democrats than Republicans, Heather Wilson (semi-moderate, semi-conservative) Republican would continually get re-elected to the US House largely composed by ABQ metro.

***The one thing I will say about New Mexicans...they are fiercely, fiercely loyal at re-electing folks. That is why a rock-ribbed conservative Republican like Pete Domenici was re-elected Senator since seemingly the 1700s, yet, equally rock-ribbed liberal Democrat Bingaman also is always counted on to be re-elected to the Senate.

This is what somewhat breeds the corruption that New Mexico government has become somewhat known for. Not as pervasive and horribly corrupt as, say, Illinois, but a LOT of "good ol' boy"..."this is how we do it in NM" kind of establishment corruption. Folks kept re-electing and re-electing "Uncle" Manny Aragon, and stuff like that is where the corruption really comes up. Now, you are seeing it with long-time NM pol Richardson. It just is what it is.

The state is often blindly loyal to its elected officials, often times to its own detriment.

Really though, I love politics in New Mexico. They are fascinating. As a conservative, I don't think you'd have many issues at all living in NM. No New Jersey-morphing any time soon, and frankly, even though taxes may be a tick higher than AZ, after the cost of living thing is factored in, you'd likely have a lower cost of living in general. People are just so laid back and friendly in most areas of the state, whether you are a GOP'er, a Dem, or whatever, you might find a place for a good, hearty debate, but also a mutual cold cerveza .

[PrescottAZ]

Mortimer: I don't mind disagreement. In my opinion, however, being called a "troll" becuase I posted a question someone didn't happen to like isn't disagreement, it's just someone being rude. As you can see, I am very new to the forum. I guess I expected better and maybe that's on me. If you think it appropriate to call people names because you think their question should not have been asked, then you do. We will just disagree.

EnjoyEP: I cannot thank you enough. Your response was thoughtful, comprehensive and clear. After reading it, I feel I have a much better understandiing of the political climate in New Mexico than I did originally and I'm thrilled my worst fears are groundless. I agree it sounds like a great place to live. I already knew the landscape and culture were wonderful.

Thanks to all of you that took the time to comment. It has been very helpful and this forum is clearly is a valuable resource I just wish it didn't have that bit of unfriendly undercurrent, especially if you ask a question one of the "veterans" happens to think is inappropriate.

[highdesertmutz]

OMG, my worst fear WAS moving to a lib state, with mountain lions, bears, bobcats, javalinas, fox, coyotes, wolves, tarantulas, brown recluse, rattlesnakes, and lastly, those damned liberals who hug the fricken trees, and take away gun owner rights! whew!@ with all of these critters about, I would think that living with a bunch of libs would have been my last worry in the world, oh, I just woke up from an 8 year nap, don't tell me, we've got a democrat in the white house now? oh GAWD, what are we going to do now????!!!!!:shocke d: America is being taken over by libs!!
that's it, no more mr. nice guyhow could new mexicans possibly be fed up with liberalism when we just went thru 8 years of, you know what. spare your jersey analogy please.